Genesis 4:5

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Katia

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#1
In the past, I've just read this and not understanding it, passed it up. Does this mean that God likes Cattlemen, and not Farmers? I've heard others confidently offer explanations that made no more sense to me.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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#2
In the past, I've just read this and not understanding it, passed it up. Does this mean that God likes Cattlemen, and not Farmers? I've heard others confidently offer explanations that made no more sense to me.
God probably rejected Cains offering because it wasn't the first and best of the crop.
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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#3
In the past, I've just read this and not understanding it, passed it up. Does this mean that God likes Cattlemen, and not Farmers? I've heard others confidently offer explanations that made no more sense to me.
I can tell you one thing...if Cain had given ALL of the groceries we wouldn't be working so hard to get our food now...just saying.

But first thing to remember is that everyone was a vegetarian at that time. Flocks were used for their wool only.
So when Abel brought the firstborn out of his flocks it was the very best of the best sheep that made the best wool for clothes. And the message was the only God can clothe them with the best... while saying that his best is for God. It was an irrevocable offering for generations to come.

Atonement is a word meaning covering like clothes cover us...

Crops are usually annual and seasonal in nature. There was an acknowledgement of God's provision but the message of "I need God to feed me because my efforts are insufficient" was really missing.

Also...it usually gets overlooked but this wasn't the first time for making offerings. "At the appointed time" is said here too.... meaning that this was a regularly scheduled thing to meet God. They wore their best clothes at this moment...(kinda like we do at Easter)

Cain had a lot of pride in what he was offering up to God...Abel had a much more humble offering.

As the "firstborn" Cain was hoping that he himself was the "Seed" of the woman that would allow them access back into the Garden in Eden...but here is Abel showing him up....Cain had the premier job of farming...Abel had the little kid job of shepherding. (Children usually did the shepherding and Adults didn't)
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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#4
Cain brought some fruit of his harvest. Abel brought the first fruits of his flock. Their hearts were revealed by the quality of their offering. Nevertheless, God gave Cain an opportunity to repent but Cain allowed his anger to take root in himself.

And, as an aside, the first murder was a religious murder.
 

Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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#5
God had no regard for Cain's offering because his offering possessed no faith.

Without faith, you cannot please God.
Sacrifice, by definition, has to cost you something.
Offering (the first and best) from your flock is an act of faith because it costs you something (like the tithe).
Offering fruit from the ground (from an unowned, unlimited supply) is not an act of faith because it doesn't cost Cain anything.
Cain walked around and found something to "offer" to God, something he probably wouldn't have needed later if he hadn't offered it. It didn't cost him anything, so it wasn't a sacrifice, and it didn't require any faith, so it wasn't pleasing to God.

Another possibility is that God had revealed to them what kinds of sacrifices were acceptable beforehand. Afterall, Noah knew what animals were clean and unclean way before the Levitical Law was given, outlining these matters.

Regardless...
God doesn't care about the material things we "give" Him (from His own creation). He cares about trust and faith and personal sacrifice)
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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#6
Hebrews 11:4 gives some insight into why Abel's sacrifice was more acceptable: "By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks."

It's not that God likes cattlemen but not farmers, it's that Abel had a degree of faith that made his offering acceptable. Abel was trying to please God whereas Cain's offering was offered of of pride and self-interest. Abel's offering—the firstborn of his flock—was also a type and shadow of Christ.
 

JohnDB

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#7
Offering fruit from the ground (from an unowned, unlimited supply) is not an act of faith because it doesn't cost Cain anything.
Cain walked around and found something to "offer" to God, something he probably wouldn't have needed later if he hadn't offered it. It didn't cost him anything, so it wasn't a sacrifice, and it didn't require any faith, so it wasn't pleasing to God.
This would be going beyond what is written and going beyond the "common knowledge" of the era and culture that the scriptures were written in.

Cain's offering was standard... something done on a regular basis. Nothing to get excited about.

Abel's offering was unique. It expressed great humility and insufficiency. Faith that by killing something that was alive as a method he might please God was exceptionally brave. (They didn't eat meat until after the flood in chapter 6)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#8
This would be going beyond what is written and going beyond the "common knowledge" of the era and culture that the scriptures were written in.

Cain's offering was standard... something done on a regular basis. Nothing to get excited about.

Abel's offering was unique. It expressed great humility and insufficiency. Faith that by killing something that was alive as a method he might please God was exceptionally brave. (They didn't eat meat until after the flood in chapter 6)
Abel's offering also pre-figured the need for a blood sacrifice...
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#9
.
Long story short: God rejected Cain along with rejecting his offering. This is
important because God still does business like that with mankind to this day.

Prov 15:8 . . Jehovah detests the sacrifice of the wicked

Cain's situation is well illustrated by Isa 1:11-20 where Moses' people were
offering all the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and
observing all the God-given feasts and holy days. God rejected all of it, even
though He himself required it, because the people's personal conduct was
unbecoming.

FAQ: In what way might Cain's piety have been lacking?

A: Well, judging by the fact that Cain later murdered Abel; my first guess
would be bad blood between him and his kid brother.

Matt 5:23-24 . . If you are offering your gift at the altar and there
remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift
there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then
come and offer your gift.

And Cain's attitude was deplorable too; he was insolent and rude; even to
his maker. (Gen 4:9)

Moral of the story:

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" (Gen 4:7)

"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is
light; in Him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with
Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. (1John
1:5-6)

NOTE: The Hebrew word for Cain's and Abel's offerings is from minchah
(min-khaw') which aren't necessarily sin offerings like the 'olah (o-law')
which are burnt offerings. Minchahs are more like donations and or tributes;
and usually bloodless and voluntary.

Ancient rabbis understood the brothers' offerings to be a "first fruits" kind of
oblation.

T. And it was at the end of days, on the fourteenth of Nisan, that Kain
brought of the produce of the earth, the seed of cotton (or line), an oblation
of first things before the Lord; and Habel brought of the firstlings of the
flock. (Targum Jonathan)

Seeing as how Cain was a farmer, then in his case, an amount of produce
was the appropriate minchah, and seeing as how Abel was an animal
husbandman, then in his case a head of livestock was appropriate.
_
 

Katia

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#10
.
Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than
Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of
his gifts:


The thing is: according to James 2:17, faith without works is no faith at all.
In other words; Abel's piety was adequate enough get his offering accepted,
whereas Cain's piety was far too substandard.
_
I'm not sure that I will ever understand at all, parts of the Scripture.
 

Webers.Home

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#11
.
Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than
Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of
his gifts:

The thing is: according to James 2:17, faith without works is no faith at all.
In other words; Abel's piety was adequate enough get his offering accepted,
whereas Cain's piety was far too substandard.

NOTE: Abel was a prophet (Luke 11:50-51). So I've no doubt that
somewhere along the line, Abel schooled his elder brother in the matter of
faith and works, i.e. Cain should've known better than to try and circumvent
the will of God pertaining to piety and offerings.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#12
.
Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination.

Perhaps the classic example is the one below.

Ps 51:16 . .You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not
take pleasure in burnt offerings.

When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital crimes of
adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no way that God was
going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on top of that; and David knew it
too.

The moral of the story is: rituals, rites, and/or ceremonies-- no matter how
correct nor how timely --do not compensate for conduct unbecoming.
_
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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#13
Farming is hard work...
Before 800-1100 AD farming techniques never really changed. It was after this that advances in farming actually began to feed more people per acre than ever before. Even then before this time it took even more work and more land to feed the same amount of people.

Now in Chapter 3 of Genesis God tells Adam to begin to farm if he wanted to eat. Now anyone who has been on a "mission for God" will tell you...it's an all consuming passion to do exactly as God has said to do. Anyone that is deemed as "not good enough" doesn't get to take part in fulfilling the dictate of what God has said.

So we see that Cain, as the firstborn, got to do all the farming.... Adam likely helped as well as any brothers and sisters that were available...it's a LOT of work. Until it comes to Abel...

In the Ancient Near East only grade school age kids did the shepherding... adults did the other more important chores. It boggles the modern adult's mind when seeing a 6 year old herding 100 sheep or more. But trust me those kids do better than most adults.

Now Abel was an adult but not allowed to farm...he was relegated to shepherding because likely he was thought of as a screwup by his family. So long as he kept the sheep out of the farming area he was fine...but of course sheep wander away and get into the fields...so he kept the title of a screwup.

So when he slaughtered the best sheep he had which produced the best wool...he was continuing the mindset that he couldn't clothe himself with even the best that he could do.

They wore clothes because of sin...
But the best wool Abel produced wasn't good enough to cover himself with...he needed God to do it better than he ever could...

And the Atonement (covering) that Jesus provided us with is the answer to Abel's offering/plea today.
 

JohnDB

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#14
The Cain and Abel story also set up a new precedent in scripture (besides murder) in that you have to actually think about the people in the stories and consider their viewpoints...

Cain considered himself as Nobel (as did his family)

Abel was considered the schmuck loser by his family...

But the least/loser was the greatest...it's a recurring theme.
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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#15
I'm not sure that I will ever understand at all, parts of the Scripture.
Only the smartest people ever admit that...trust me on that one. (Grumpy old man saying this)
There's a lot to scriptures I don't understand...and I've studied them my whole life.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#16
In the past, I've just read this and not understanding it, passed it up. Does this mean that God likes Cattlemen, and not Farmers? I've heard others confidently offer explanations that made no more sense to me.
“But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wasn’t thier sacrofoces that God preferred it was that abel was doing it out of love and righteousness and thankfulness

and Cain had a different countenance and was not a well doer but a rebel he was offering from a place of sin and Abel from a place of righteousness

God cares about our heart and intents how we treat others Cain then shows us he was a killer of men and Abel is called righteous and the first martyr killed by a wicked man

“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Cain was a sinner and had a ooor countenance because he wasn’t being fully accepted as his brother who was righteous . Gkd told him “ if you do what’s right you will also be accepted and then he decided to eliminate the competition instead
 

Katia

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#17
“But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wasn’t thier sacrofoces that God preferred it was that abel was doing it out of love and righteousness and thankfulness

and Cain had a different countenance and was not a well doer but a rebel he was offering from a place of sin and Abel from a place of righteousness

God cares about our heart and intents how we treat others Cain then shows us he was a killer of men and Abel is called righteous and the first martyr killed by a wicked man

“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Cain was a sinner and had a ooor countenance because he wasn’t being fully accepted as his brother who was righteous . Gkd told him “ if you do what’s right you will also be accepted and then he decided to eliminate the competition instead
There are some quite sad stories in the Bible that I am thankful that I did not witness. This is one. Another is the story of Ananias and Saphira in the book of acts. The Book of Job is quite sad, as is the Book of Ezekiel. It is frustrating that scholars try to explain away what happened. To me it feels like they are against God.
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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#18
In the past, I've just read this and not understanding it, passed it up. Does this mean that God likes Cattlemen, and not Farmers? I've heard others confidently offer explanations that made no more sense to me.
We are in the time of the new covenant when God speaks to us through our hearts, and we are to use that so we see the heart of what we are told in the old testament. Of course, God is not speaking of cattlemen and farmers, God is speaking of the sacrifice needed for salvation. All through scripture in the old testament we are saved through Christ, and the literal Christ did not happen for thousands of years. We are told in Lev. 17:11 that God gave blood on the altar. We are told through the sacrificial system about the symbolic blood of Christ.

Cain asked for the forgiveness of his sin through the works of his hands. It did not work for Cain and it does not work for us. Abel offered the blood of a lamb that symbolizes Christ, and that worked.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#19
There are some quite sad stories in the Bible that I am thankful that I did not witness. This is one. Another is the story of Ananias and Saphira in the book of acts. The Book of Job is quite sad, as is the Book of Ezekiel. It is frustrating that scholars try to explain away what happened. To me it feels like they are against God.
Mayes anytime we have to move around the words of God its ever going to take us down the path we need to walk

job appears sad , but it also ends with his victory and restoration because he remained faithful through it all

the saddest event in scripture seems to be also the most glorious when the majesty of heaven came to save his beloved people , went about healing and lifting up the dead and lame and blind and poor

but then they rejected and spit on him , beat him and mocked him , whipped him and beat him again both new and gentile took turns spitting on him and beating him accusing and eventually crucified him which is the root of the term “ excruciating pain “

it seems sad for a moment , but then if we follow through we see that the sorrowful times are necassary in order for a gods glory to reveal itself as He stepped out of death and left behind him an empty tomb

and we see Jesus now who brings us sorrow to see what happened on earth but wow look at our beloved hero now

“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The world will bring sorrow and job teaches us why it comes , but those who trust in the lord are expecting the glory of Jesus Christ and the joy of the lord forever
 

Katia

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#20
I'm sorry, I get overcome by emotion at times and can not think straight. I love God and his work but I am not God and frequently what is going on around me is beyond my understanding. At these times I feel like weeping in sorrow for the lost.