2 Thessalonians 2:3 "falling away" or "the departure" IS intentionally describing the Apostasy.

Don't believe anything that says this event is the rapture. Here are 5 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:


Strong's definition G646

apostasia

ap-os-tas-ee'-ah

Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”) : - falling away, forsake.

Total KJV occurrences: 2


Thayer Definition:

G646 apostasia


1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

Part of Speech: noun feminine

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647

Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Total KJV occurrences: 2





Abbott-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

Apostasia

defection, apostasy, revolt; in late Gk. (MM, Exp., viii; Lft., Notes, 111; Cremer, 308) for cl. ?p?stas?? , freq. in sense of political revolt, in LXX (e.g. Joshua 22:22, 2 Chronicles 29:19, Jeremiah 2:19) and NT always of religious apostasy: Ac21:21, II Th 2:3.







Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God , apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .





Winer's Grammar:



Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 3629) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

Thanks for taking a stand for the truth and making sure it gets the attention it deserves.

"Don't believe anything that says this event is the rapture. Here are 5 expert sources that prove the "departure" in 2 Thess 2:3 is the Apostasy:"

Sorry just who are you to tell anyone just who they should trust? Forgive me you did not search study this out. There are far more then 5 experts and then those that go into depth tell you about what other "experts" believe and why they disagree. Those experts will never say "I am right they are wrong". Why? Because this original word has more then one meaning. I have books here that go into depth list the names and then share why they disagree. One could ask do you know Hebrew and Greek (classic, ancient)? Do they all translate the same? Yeah its not all the same.

So what do you see when you look out into the world right now? See a fallen away do you? Odd well countries as in Iran, Iraq, Israel, China... more are coming to Christ like never before. Seems His Church is growing. Not huge fallen alway happening. The gates of hell will never over power the Church. Fact the Church has all power over the enemy.. so what are SOME of those people doing right now? The Church is still here. Satan is not over powering Christ. Christ is in us.. He gave us all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt us.

See asking "do you believe in caught up?" That can explain allot. Me? Well I can't find pre mid post verses in the word of God. I can see how each makes its case. Each comes down to something they truly don't know for sure.

Obviously I did. The experts in Greek agree with me and I with them. It's others who have decided to disagree with the experts, not knowing Greek at all, and have decided to invent their own definition for Apostasia which doesn't exist anywhere. It's purely made up because they turn a word meaning Apostasy and change it into describing the rapture. Pure eisegesis on their part.

The Heresy Group are backed into a corner where they cannot fight their way out of - this is of the Lord.
Like Pharoahs magicians, they use tricks to mesmerize and deceive, but the Staff of God will devour their tricks.
They have one last 'trick' which is to change the meaning of one word in a failed hope to change the meaning of Paul's words.
These are false teachers led by the spirit of error - they are blinded by an idol that they have exalted above the Scripture.

You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses,
The Apostle John is one of those Witnesses - 1 John 2:18

Just a few comments to say about this issue...


Consider:

From Blue Letter Bible -

[LXX Septuagint / Greek] 2 Chron 33:19 -

προσευχῆς αὐτοῦ καὶ ὡς ἐπήκουσεν αὐτοῦ καὶ πᾶσαι αἱ ἁμαρτίαι αὐτοῦ καὶ αἱ ἀποστάσεις [apostaseis] αὐτοῦ καὶ οἱ τόποι ἐφ᾽ οἷς ᾠκοδόμησεν τὰ ὑψηλὰ καὶ ἔστησεν ἐκεῗ ἄλση καὶ γλυπτὰ πρὸ τοῦ ἐπιστρέψαι ἰδοὺ γέγραπται ἐπὶ τῶν λόγων τῶν ὁρώντων

--so "apostaseis" (whereas 2Th2:3 has "apostasia")

--when you click on "Greek Parsing," the box that pops up states: "No associated Strong's number for this form"

--when you hover your cursor over the "Parsing" column for this word, the "pop-up" (which appears only when you hover your cursor) states: "From the root"



[does this "fit" ewq's personal criteria (regarding particular forms of a word)? just asking]

____________


[LXX Septuagint / Greek] Jeremiah 36:29 -

NOT FOUND (I did not see this word here at all, nor in any nearby verses that I could see)

--Then I noticed the numbering system to the LXX is very different (esp. in Jer.)... so I traced back to how the LXX would number the verse instead, and it said: "36:29 LXX = 29:29" -

--STILL NOT FOUND (I did not see this word here at all, nor was it in the nearby verse which has the English word "rebellion" (v.32)... the LXX Septuagint / Greek again did NOT show "apostasia" as being in that verse at all)

--Then I looked up the word "Complutensian" (which is the word found next to this Scripture Reference at BLB, under "Thayer's"--same as is what we see under "Winer's" in ewq's post [stated as "Jer36;29 ) 32" in ewq's list of sources posted]), which says:

"Complutensian adjective

Com·plu·ten·sian | \ ¦kämplü¦tenchən \

Definition of Complutensian

: of or relating to the polyglot bible published in Alcalá de Henares, Spain, in 1513–17 and containing the Old Testament in Hebrew, the Targum of Onkelos on the Pentateuch, the Septuagint, the Vulgate, and the Greek New Testament

the Complutensian Polyglot"

[end quoting Merriam-Webster Dictionary; bold mine]



[conclusion... doesn't seem to me to "fit" ewq's criteria... I mean, the SCHOLARS included it obviously, but is this how they understood the word IN THE ERA that the NT was WRITTEN (which is a consideration I personally find to be pertinent! esp. when considering how Josephus [in that era] used the word--Paul living in that SAME ERA, see)]



____________


[LXX Septuagint / Greek - via "Brenton" translation] 1 Macc 2:15 -

15 Καὶ ἦλθον οἱ παρὰ τοῦ βασιλέως οἱ καταναγκάζοντες τὴν ἀποστασίαν εἰς Μωδεΐν τὴν πόλιν, ἵνα θυσιάσωσι.

--SAME spelling / form as in Acts 21:21 - "apostasian" (whereas 2Th2:3 has "apostasia")



[does this "fit" ewq's personal criteria (regarding particular forms of a word)? just asking]




[continued in next post]

[continued from last post]

Right.

But apparently according to ewq's standards, we are not to consider how "apostasis" is used even in the same era the NT was written (esp 2Th2:3)...

...ex. how Josephus apparently used this word [even this spelling] (at the link I had provided)... where that usage [as far as I can tell] refers to "DISTANCE" [as in, putting a "separation" between things, ...or, "a standing away from" like L&S's lists under the word]...when Josephus's sentence is translated from the Greek into English [like I said, as far as I can tell... but I'm not fluent in Greek, I have to trust those who are, and this is what they seem to say regarding that particular source (???)]).




What I find it boils down to is, HOW WAS THE WORD UNDERSTOOD in the era the NT was written, since we only see two verses using this in the NT (different spellings between them) and the Acts 21:21 occurrence has been translated "A DEPARTURE [G646] from Moses"

(whereas 2Th2:3 uses "the definite article ['the']"--"THE departure"... In Greek, a definite article is unnecessary to make a noun definite. Its inclusion DRAWS ATTENTION to its object. [Paul HAD already made mention of "our episynagoges [noun] unto Him" and our "harpazo [/SNATCH-verb-action]" which will be "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR]" (a number of other references to this Subject, such as 1Th1:10 and 1Th2:19, etc)...]

I kind of see what you're saying, but I think the challenge with translating a language is that the context and the larger body of scriptures need to be considered.

Since nothing about a pre-trib rapture is hinted at anywhere in the whole body of scriptures, it wouldnt make sense to introduce a translation that creates contradictions in the scriptures. In 2 Thessalonians 2, the Lord doesn't come until after the man of sin is already in God's temple claiming himself to be God. That's post-trib. The gathering to Christ is post-trib.

So a pre-trib gathering to Christ doesn't fit the context the general context of the chapter of 2Thess. 2 or the Bible as a whole. Contractions like that would create a major credibility problem for the Bible and would only muddy the waters worse than pre-tribbers are currently doing.

The only neat way to preserve the integrity of the Bible is to stick with what the real definitions of words are and make sure the context agrees with it. I think you just need to quit fiddling with words in the Bible because it's creating a massive amount of confusion and possibly leading lesser read people away from the truth.

That's because apostasis is not in the bible. It's only found in the Septuagint and that's merely a translation not an original manuscript because the OT wasn't written in Greek.

None of this changes the definition of Apostasia into the definition for Apostasis and neither word means a physical departure so neither can be used to support a rapture being addressed. Both are also nouns while a rapture would be a verb because it's about people moving from one place to another.

2 Thessalonians:2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Read this in context with Matthew 24:

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul is covering the spans of the entire "7 years" (which 2:9a's "whose COMING / ARRIVAL /ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia" of the man of sin is what "kicks off" those 7 yrs--parallel to other related passages on that Subject); he's not merely covering the "3.5 years" (which is where the 2:4 "SITTETH" thing commences the SECOND HALF of those 7 yrs--also parallel to other related passages)... as you've suggested regarding this context.

At the END of those "7 yrs" is when the v.8b's "MANIFESTATION of His [Jesus'] presence / parousia" takes place... when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him (and pertains to the phrase "Behold, I [Jesus Himself] come AS A THIEF."... NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanies this when speaking of JESUS HIMSELF / HIS OWN PERSON...
That phrase IS added when it is speaking of the TIME PERIOD [immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO His Second Coming to the earth], so referring to the ARRIVAL and DURATION OF the "7 years" commonly called the Tribulation period... in which "the man of sin" will DO all he is slated to DO over the course of those "7 years").

That TIME PERIOD is said to "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / ...Matt24:4/Mk13:5] that COMES UPON a woman... and "SUDDENLY"... but MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"...
...it is not "ONE and DONE" when it comes to the "birth PANGS".






[Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6 which are said to be a part of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1... i.e. the "7 yrs"]

I don't know what you just said, but read 2 Thessalonians 2 slowly. No amount of word smithing and semantic games changes the context.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, the Lord doesn't come until after the man of sin is already in God's temple claiming himself to be God. That's post-trib.

What in the world is Paul talking about IN VERSE 2 ?

So easy a child can understand = verse 2 is directly referring back to verse 1 = this is CLEAR

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

Verse 1 - the Coming of our Lord and our gathering to Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matthew 24: 29-31
Verse 2 - Do not believe the lie of pre-trib or any such false report as though the day of Christ had come - (Left Behind BS LIE)
Verse 3 - Christ will not come until "the falling away come first" occurs first = 1 John 2:18 and Matthew 24:10
Verse 3 - Christ will not come until the "man of sin" is revealed = Daniel ch7, Matt 24:15, 1 John 2:18, Rev 6:9-11 and Rev ch20

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Verse 2 - Do not believe the lie of [...] any such false report as though the day of Christ had come [...]

[removing the superfluous provoking language]...



... I assume you're saying that Paul is telling them (v.2) not to believe anyone trying to convince them that "JESUS HIMSELF" had come (and thus that the "RAPTURE" [connected with said RETURN, according to your viewpoint] had already occurred also).

That Paul is taking the time to write them a letter to caution them about such a lie as THAT, which he does not want them to fall for / be convinced by / be deceived about.

Imagine such a thing... that Paul would have to WRITE THEM A LETTER to tell them NOT to be deceived by anyone trying to tell them JESUS HIMSELF ALREADY RETURNED and that the RAPTURE HAS ALREADY OCCURRED...

... without one shred of evidence anywhere in sight to this effect (to make it IN ANY WAY "believable"), as life has been continuing on in the same way it always has (see 1:4 "persecutions and tribulations YE ENDURE")... and in addition to that, absolutely ZERO SAINTS had gone missing...

... yet Paul finds it necessary to WRITE A LETTER to tell the Thessalonians not to fall under any such delusion of those saying CHRIST HAS RETURNED / RAPTURE ALREADY HAPPENED, coz the Thessalonians were INCREDIBLY STOOPID PEOPLE, right??

So dense that they needed Paul to give such a warning about not believing such a thing, right?
Something as completely OBVIOUS AS THAT required Paul's letter to tell them not to believe such a thing AS THAT?!

...with ZERO EVIDENCE to that effect ANYWHERE IN SIGHT...










[In past posts, I've LISTED some 23-24 versions having v.2 as "the day of the Lord" - https://biblehub.com/parallel/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm - which is referring to the earthly time period of JUDGMENTs unfolding (that ASPECT OF it), per the prophetic scriptures speaking of this very thing; Many scholars agree with one writer saying... "'the day of the Lord',---Preponderating authority is against the reading of... 'day of Christ'." ... And you can see that at the LISTING of versions at the LINK, as one example...]

In the CONTEXT of chpt 2, Paul is contrasting the FALSE CLAIM (v.2) with THEIR/PAUL'S TEACHING (v.15) and saying, basically, don't believe THEM, believe US (what WE taught you).



IOW, verse 2 supplies NO HINT WHATSOEVER that "the v.2 FALSE CLAIMANTS" even knew of, or stated anything related to, "RAPTURE"



[It is PAUL who is BRINGING THAT SUBJECT to bear ON THE ISSUE / PROBLEM of v.2]

Mr. Twister - you just can't stop - based on such twisting that you do, i question if you even know Him.

it seems to me, based on your history of twisting Scripture, that you are part of the "falling away" where you no longer hold the Word of God as TRUTH but consider yourself above Scripture, and feel that it is up to you to redefine Scripture based on a lie = pre-trib rapture.

You consistently and willfully violate the Eternal Commandment from the beginning.

Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I teach you to observe, that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you. You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it,
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

This statement is false and misleading and simply betrays a bias against a genuine Bible doctrine. There is more than a hint about this in Scripture, and the Lord Jesus Christ first proclaimed this doctrine (John 14:1-3). He specifically said "Let not your heart be troubled" to refute those who connect the Rapture with the Tribulation.

As to apostasia, according to the context, it means a departure from the faith, or a falling away from true Bible Christianity. It has nothing to do with the Rapture.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία (apostasia)
ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36 29) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say ἀπόστασις; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

@DavidTree , Paul had already (in his PREVIOUS letter to the Thessalonians) acknowledged that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" the manner of "the day of the Lord's" ARRIVAL

--1 Thessalonians 5:1-3



[they were not ignorant of WHAT "the day of the Lord" is and entails... However, ppl today have re-defined it... (re-defined its parameters)]

Since you keep attacking this poster PERSONALLY I am reporting you to the mods.