How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

And BTW

None of that darby origin is true.

Hardly anyone invokes that fairy tale that has been thoroghly debunked

What do you mean? All you have to do is go back thru the thread and see--in particular your criticism of David Tree--the one where you say Post-trib has been debunked--how has it been debunked exactly? Certainly not here in this forum. There are so many responses that you present no FACTS only attacks. And I've already expressed what an attack is--attacking the person vs presenting facts to support your position.

Hi there!

It is a simple question , but you do see he is not going to answer the question straight....
Does that quite a bit we've noticed...

God Bless!

Absolutely, Here is a list of commentaries which state Darby as the origin of pre-trib: https://www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm

• Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.
• 2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.
• 3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.
• 4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby's "secret rapture" false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

What i thought.

You have zero examples.

And no you put no meaning behind your " attack examples"

You are just policing me out of spite.

Yes please do go back through the thread.....read my RESPONSES to his posts.

Yes please please do just that.

The reality will shock you.

Like i said your "brilliant" factor has many brilliant people that argue atheism quite eloguently.


Saying darby ORIGINATED the postrib rapture has been bebunked.

Here is your failure.

It is failing to investigate.

Those darby claims are THOROUGLY DEBUNKED.

IT DID NOT BY ANY STREACH ORIGINATE THERE.

YET since your " experts" spout it it is magically true.

Absolutely, Here is a list of commentaries which state Darby as the origin of pre-trib: https://www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm

• Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.
• 2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.
• 3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.
• 4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby's "secret rapture" false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

Ha, ha



Here is one....YOU have not give ONE SINGLE FACT. Do you have any idea how arrogant and smug you sound?

It is due to his HUGE, HUGE , Investment in a debunked doctrine.

They invested so heavily in an easily debunked doctrine.

They litterally can not change their erroneous position.

It is called. Conclusions before investigation.

It has left them in a very sorry trap.

Big time.

It is sad to witness it.

They are in ashes and oblivious to it.

Nah.....they know they are beat.

Just can not honor Gods word.

They cant do it.

This may apply here , maybe not.My experience with this is usually when a question is not answered , or skirt around the question
either they dont know or the answer will jeopardize their belief , even when they see the error...its a pride thing...
I call these the unteachable's...ever learning.....
.

Proverbs 26:4-5 – Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.

I bid you all adieu...this has become an Alice in Wonderland debate complete with the Queen of Hearts, The Mad Hatter and all the rest.

"“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”--The Mad Hatter

Ask any pre-tribbers to just quote a verse or two saying that Jesus comes before the tribulation to gather His elect and they can't do it.

Post-trib has Matthew 24:29-31 clearly stating Jesus returns after the tribulation to gather His elect. Also, there's 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 that says Jesus returns after the anti-Christ is revealed to gather His church.

Pre-trib rapture has no verses. Quite frankly I'm not even sure how pre-tribbers are seeing something that they can't even quote a single verse for.

Ask any pre-tribbers to just quote a verse or two saying that Jesus comes before the tribulation to gather His elect and they can't do it.

These debates on the subject always end identically the same.

Proverbs 26:4-5 – Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.

I bid you all adieu...this has become an Alice in Wonderland debate complete with the Queen of Hearts, The Mad Hatter and all the rest.

"“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?”--The Mad Hatter

Post-trib has Matthew 24:29-31 clearly stating Jesus returns after the tribulation to gather His elect. Also, there's 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 that says Jesus returns after the anti-Christ is revealed to gather His church.

Pre-trib rapture has no verses. Quite frankly I'm not even sure how pre-tribbers are seeing something that they can't even quote a single verse for.

Ask any pre-tribbers to just quote a verse or two saying that Jesus comes before the tribulation to gather His elect and they can't do it.

These debates on the subject always end identically the same.

One of the arguments most opponents to the Rapture use is that it can't be right as it was a theory developed much later in comparison to other views. They all say that it began around 1830 through the ministry of Darby. Actually the pretrib rapture position does have historical precedent. Besides the apostle's teaching, a sermon was delivered in AD 373 by the Byzantine leader Pseudo-Ephraem entitled "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World" or "Sermon on the End fo the World". This includes a concept very similar to the pretrib rapture.

It is clear that the church isn't Israel, that Israel isn't the church. Of the promises of God to save Israel through the 70th week of Daniel (that the Lord Jesus Himself opens the first seal in Revelation 6 "the wrath of the Lamb" and the NT passages that state soooooo clearly that we (the church) are NOT appointed to God's wrath. Full stop. Period!

The early church fathers taught the Rapture.

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. - On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:

“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;” so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

Cyprian
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) – Cyprian was Bishop of the church in Carthage. During his short stint as leader of the church, he guided the flock through intense persecution at the hands of the Roman Empire. In 258 AD after spending seven months of confinement to his home by order of Roman authorities, he was beheaded for his faith. Several of his works still exist today.

In Treatises of Cyprian he wrote in describing the end times Great Tribulation:

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent? Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.”

Two Pretribulational References in the Early Church

1. The Shepherd of Hermas (95-150)

The Shepherd of Hermas was written between 96-150 AD. This document provides a statement that resembles a teaching of a pre-trib rapture doctrine. Though it is not exactly as found in modern day scholarly pretribulational writings, it still shows that an idea existed in some degree that God's people could escape the future tribulation that was to come on the whole earth. The text reads:

"You have escaped from the great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life serving the Lord blamelessly."

This is not a systematic teaching, nor does it answer all of the questions that one may have. But it does give a reference to the possibility that God's people can escape the great tribulation.

There are many more.

Where is the scripture that expressly states the church will go through the Great Tribulation?

Yep. That video I posted received NO response from the post-tribbers. They had zero understanding of the critically important content.