Is the faith God bases our salvation on more than our beliefs alone?

the example James gives is this

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

James example lines up with Jesus words about loving others in deed and truth and actions


“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-36, 40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and then the contrary regarding those same works we refuse to do

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-43, 45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s about how we actually treat other people especially those with too little.

Same example John gives

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith doesn’t work if we don’t act upon it if we do that will produce works , and we can’t act upon faith until we hear the gospel and believe and begin to have faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I so agree.

When scripture tells us all about the sacrificial system, the system that prophesied Christ in the flesh, it explains what Christ came to do. One of the sacrifices was for the sin they had not realized they had committed. It was a prophecy of repentance. That is repentant: wanting to be without sin.

I like that you bring out our search for truth. That is why I posted this, to think through what scripture tells us of truth. We can't have truth if we only listen to one scripture, we must have faith in all of it.

Christ said the road was narrow and few find it. If you refuse to read all the road signs but only the general direction you can't be sure you will reach your destination.
Thanks for doing this scripture study for us.

In today's way of speaking, scripture tells us that if we have faith in Christ as is required for salvation, that faith extends to faith in what Christ tells us to do. If we have so little faith in those things it is like no faith at all.

Yes ma’am , I couldn’t agree more with what your saying there our life’s journey as Christians is just to follow after the lord with everything we have and also know that what we don’t have yet he is able to cover us if we just press forward in our search and journey

what we learn in Jesus Christ when we start believing has the power to do this for us which is our problem

“And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel of we believe and learn and persevere can do that for us it can change how we think and perceive life and save our souls from the unrepentant sinners we once were God bless I think it’s all this

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a journey and a life spent seeking the lord with all we are and have but again he’s capable of saving us from the things beyond us

Why did you confused about what you listed?

Read the whole bible.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

True faith = a changed life = good works = glory to God.

I believe the person who has true faith will have works which correspond to faith. But the great and monstrous mistake made by some is to think that it is the works that save or contribute to salvation, no, it is by grace through FAITH that we are saved.

By grace means it is FREE, it is unearned and unmerited, surely if God has been so overflowingly kind to us, our hearts overflowing with gratitude will desire to reach out to others. That is the faith both Paul and James talk about.

The works JUSTIFY us, we are justified. Justification is different to salvation, it simply means that we are seen to be saved by the works we do [or the works that God does through us].

Some folks get awful self-righteous

They see the christians at prayer and it incenses them, "bah!" they say "I'll roll my sleeves up and show them" and off they go on a one man mission to feed and clothe the world ... they'll soon get tired of it.

Who are behind all the soup kitchens, the shelter schemes and other charitable ventures? is it not christians? it is in Britain I don't know about the US. These things are best done by churches and churches working together supported by donations.

That's how schools began, that's how hospitals began ... not to mention the Salvation Army and like institutions. The works are there and most christians support them at some level. Then the politicians take over.

Schools were a good christian ideal, look at them now they are run by politicians ... teaching kids how to be like Sodom and Gomorrah.

You need to look at all those scriptures you quote again for the works being done are in context to works of charity done to the BRETHREN or to folks we find among us in the assembly ... not in the least to say we should not do good to folks outside the church, we should.

I'll tell yuh something, there is such a thing as misplaced charity. Wait upon the Lord and He will lead you to folks who HE wants you to help, or He will lead them to us, hence James word about the poor in the assembly. God is wise, don't get ahead of Him.

it seems like the chicken before the egg or egg before the chicken argument

you say real faith will do the works and say we’re saved by faith also. If faith is going to do the works how do works have nothing to do with it ? Isn’t James point that faith without works is dead and can’t save ?

Noah was saved by grace

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

through faith also

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith is to hear what God said and believe what he said . Noah was told he was going to flood the earth and was told to build an ark he believed and had faith that God was telling him the truth so the “ works “ of building the ark was the result of God explaining that if he built it he would save himself and family .

it wouldn’t be faith if Noah said “ I have faith lord but the work isn’t necassary “

faith only comes from what God said

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s why we share the gospel in the world so people can hear what God said about salvstion and eternal life and believe and have faith and repent and start to live as Gods people rather than satans people

what we do is the expression of whatever faith we have we can believe the gospel and learn and grow into faith and walk by it doing the deeds because we believe what he said or we can say “I have faith and faith means what I do doesn’t matter “

faith actually teaches us what to do and promises a result if we do this is a word of faith

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if someone believes that and acts on it they now have a word from God saying they shall be saved. If they hear it and don’t believe it’s because they have no faith in what he said . Most often because they have decided themselves what will save them so what Jesus said will save them they don’t have room for it

And this is a word of faith

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s always going to have instruction and promise that will result of the person believes and therefore acts upon the belief

humans actually do what they really believe in it’s how we’re made we act in the core beliefs we have so our actions tell the story

Well this is a very good post and sets out my position very well.

If Noah had not built the ark still his standing with God would be that He found favour with God ... he would have been saved post the resurrection. But boy would he have missed out.

While he was building that ark he was preaching, prophesying, warning the world that the flood was coming. So he would have missed out on the joy of discipleship and fellowship with God ... we read the record of God speaking to Noah but in reality He was talking to Noah the whole time in the wisdom and science of ark building. He'd have missed out on being part of the new world post flood, being the pioneer of faith and ordering world and human behaviour for the new world order.

He would have physically perished in the flood. Remember Peter says that after the resurrection Jesus went into the spirit world and preached the gospel to those who perished before the flood.

I believe our attitude towards God shows in how we respond to His word and shows whether we will be blest and useful in the kingdom ... I worry about folks who can just wave away God's word. We hear people in all kinds of struggles and trials and one of the first things I would ask is have you been baptised in water? I would know from their answer how carefully they listen to God.

So baptism is for the purpose of testimony [which is important] and discipleship and fellowship with God.

It is an ordinance of the church but some would make it a sacrament and that is the start of a professional clergy class and is the basis of control and power in the church. For soon they will say only a bishop or his representative [the priest] may baptise or break bread.

And BANG, they have usurped authority in the church which is not according to God's word. This is where it all starts.

Noah did not find favour because he built the ark, he built the ark because he found favour.

There are three gospels

1 licentious or easy believing. These are people who believe if Jesus but not in him they are hearers if the word not doers it is them who James confronted as having faith with no works and whom Jude declaimed their condemnation was for told

2 legalistic. These are those who believe in Jesus. But not in Jesus. They believe we must have faith but that’s nit enough we must add works to Maintain or keep this salvation or else salvation is nit complete and will be lost or never obtained. These are people who Paul spent most of his time confronting telling them we are saved by faith nit work. Nit by works of righteousness which we have done but by his
Mercy.

3 grace through faith. The are those who have truly repented of their sin and their good works acknowledging them to be as filthy rags. They like the tax collector got in their knees became bankrupt in spirit and called out on the name of Jesus. These are the ones who went home justified. They are not perfect. But they have changed lives. They show the works Paul said they would show. Not to keep from losing salvation but because Gid lives then and saved them so they take that love and go live others

Sadly far to many want to call the third group either licentious and love their sin or legalistic because they get confronted by these grace believers for their sin they deny they even have.

Narrow us the gate to eternity with christ

Wide is the gate to destruction

The third gospel is the only means of entering the narrow gate

there are many levels of understanding. most are probably not aware of this.

we start out on milk or herbs, or whatever mixture even we might be taught -- in the beginning.

we are not meant to stay there... but to progress. in our understanding... and in our walk... the Way/ Truth (Christ/ Spirit).

There are three gospels
no Matter what our understanding. We fall under one of those three