What Should Nicodemus Have Understood? John 3:3-5

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Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#21
The only problem is that you think that this water which Christ mentioned is the water of baptism. It is not. It is the "water" of the Word of God -- the Gospel.

1 PETER 1: THE GOSPEL (THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED) IS THE "WATER" OF THE WORD OF GOD
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

Both the Holy Spirit and the Gospel are involved with the New Birth, which is a supernatural spiritual birth. Thus "water and the Spirit". Baptismal regeneration is false doctrine.
Required obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is part of the Gospel message found in the Word of God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#22
Jesus told the apostles that repentance and remission of sins (water baptism) would be preached in his name beginning at Jerusalem. And to wait, as well, for the promise of the Holy Ghost in Jerusalem. This occurred on the Day of Pentecost.

Luke 24:47-49
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
KJV
Amen ! even Gentiles who received the spirit first we’re immediately baptized in water for remission of sins

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


there’s no reason for us to not get baptized or argue against why it’s needed
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#23
Required obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is part of the Gospel message found in the Word of God.
yes it’s just a matter faith what person that actually truly believed this statement wouldn’t ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we believed that that Jesus said , who wouldn’t just get baptized because they believe it ?

I think we don’t know what Baptism means so many think it’s a useless ritual equating it with an ot ordinance that has no meaning to salvstion but the word says something different of baptism for remission of sins in Christs name
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#24
Amen ! even Gentiles who received the spirit first we’re immediately baptized in water for remission of sins

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


there’s no reason for us to not get baptized or argue against why it’s needed
Many fail to realize that the scripture you reference states that it is THROUGH HIS NAME that one receives remission of sins. As stated in Acts 2:38, everyone is to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. It cannot get any clearer than that. Sadly, many will hold on to error they have accepted rather than accept what the bible actually says.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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#25
Jesus stated that Nicodemus should have understood what being born of water and Spirit meant. (John 3:3-10) A study of the significance of Old Testament washings shines light on what Jesus was talking about.

Nicodemus should have been familiar with an OT washing that changed the status of a stranger (Gentile) into a Jewish child of God. The bible depicts such as proselytes. In order for an individual to be “born” into the Jewish community, the stranger/Gentile had to obey the OT law of circumcision and submit to a Mikveh/Mikvah. The Old Testament Mikveh/Mikvah parallels the New Testament water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Surely, Nicodemus was aware of John the Baptist’s message and Jesus approval of water baptism as evidenced by Jesus’ presence during baptisms. As a teacher of Jewish concepts, Nicodemus should have seen water and Spirit baptism (Acts 2:38) as the antitype that brings about an actual change of status in the NT believer as a born again child of God.

As Jesus stated everyone must be born of water and Spirit. The Spiritual rebirth is needful to both SEE (comprehend) the kingdom of God as well as ENTER into it. (John 3:3-5)

The following is an article about the Jewish Mikveh (Mikvah). The Mikveh was a construct that held a sufficient amount of water to accommodate total immersion. It is considered a “womb” according to myjewishlearning.com. Consider the principles of this foreshadow of the NT water baptism.

“The water of the mikveh is designed to ritually cleanse a person from deeds of the past. The convert is considered by Jewish law to be like a newborn child. By spiritually cleansing the convert, the mikveh water prepares him or her to confront God, life, and people with a fresh spirit and new eyes--it washes away the past, leaving only the future…

In a sense, it is nothing short of the spiritual drama of death and rebirth cast onto the canvas of the convert's soul. Submerging into waters over his/her head, he/she enters into an environment in which one cannot breathe and cannot live for more than moments. It is the death of all that has gone before. As he/she emerges from the gagging waters into the clear air, he/she begins to breathe anew and live anew--as a baby struggling to be born. If we take this graphic metaphor a step further, we can sense that the mikveh is a spiritual womb. The human fetus is surrounded by water. It does not yet live. The water breaks in a split second and the child emerges into a new world. "As soon as the convert immerses and emerges he/she is a Jew in every respect… The newborn Jew takes on a Hebrew name, but a given name only is not sufficient to locate a person within the Jewish tradition. When Jews sign legal documents or are called up to the Torah, their parents' names are appended to their Hebrew names to locate them in Jewish spiritual space. A convert traditionally adopts Abraham and Sarah as spiritual parents and in legal situations is referred to as "ben Avraham Avinu," "son of our Father, Abraham," or "bat Sarah Imenu," "daughter of our Mother, Sarah.
Are there any examples of this from the Tanakh or is it all just tradition? I don't remember reading anything like this, but I may have forgotten.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,612
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#26
Jesus stated that Nicodemus should have understood what being born of water and Spirit meant. (John 3:3-10) A study of the significance of Old Testament washings shines light on what Jesus was talking about.

Nicodemus should have been familiar with an OT washing that changed the status of a stranger (Gentile) into a Jewish child of God. The bible depicts such as proselytes. In order for an individual to be “born” into the Jewish community, the stranger/Gentile had to obey the OT law of circumcision and submit to a Mikveh/Mikvah. The Old Testament Mikveh/Mikvah parallels the New Testament water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Surely, Nicodemus was aware of John the Baptist’s message and Jesus approval of water baptism as evidenced by Jesus’ presence during baptisms. As a teacher of Jewish concepts, Nicodemus should have seen water and Spirit baptism (Acts 2:38) as the antitype that brings about an actual change of status in the NT believer as a born again child of God.

As Jesus stated everyone must be born of water and Spirit. The Spiritual rebirth is needful to both SEE (comprehend) the kingdom of God as well as ENTER into it. (John 3:3-5)

The following is an article about the Jewish Mikveh (Mikvah). The Mikveh was a construct that held a sufficient amount of water to accommodate total immersion. It is considered a “womb” according to myjewishlearning.com. Consider the principles of this foreshadow of the NT water baptism.

“The water of the mikveh is designed to ritually cleanse a person from deeds of the past. The convert is considered by Jewish law to be like a newborn child. By spiritually cleansing the convert, the mikveh water prepares him or her to confront God, life, and people with a fresh spirit and new eyes--it washes away the past, leaving only the future…

In a sense, it is nothing short of the spiritual drama of death and rebirth cast onto the canvas of the convert's soul. Submerging into waters over his/her head, he/she enters into an environment in which one cannot breathe and cannot live for more than moments. It is the death of all that has gone before. As he/she emerges from the gagging waters into the clear air, he/she begins to breathe anew and live anew--as a baby struggling to be born. If we take this graphic metaphor a step further, we can sense that the mikveh is a spiritual womb. The human fetus is surrounded by water. It does not yet live. The water breaks in a split second and the child emerges into a new world. "As soon as the convert immerses and emerges he/she is a Jew in every respect… The newborn Jew takes on a Hebrew name, but a given name only is not sufficient to locate a person within the Jewish tradition. When Jews sign legal documents or are called up to the Torah, their parents' names are appended to their Hebrew names to locate them in Jewish spiritual space. A convert traditionally adopts Abraham and Sarah as spiritual parents and in legal situations is referred to as "ben Avraham Avinu," "son of our Father, Abraham," or "bat Sarah Imenu," "daughter of our Mother, Sarah.
Give Old Testament Scripture that says this.

NOT Rabbinical writings that do NOT carry the weight of the Word.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,625
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#27
Many fail to realize that the scripture you reference states that it is THROUGH HIS NAME that one receives remission of sins. As stated in Acts 2:38, everyone is to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. It cannot get any clearer than that. Sadly, many will hold on to error they have accepted rather than accept what the bible actually says.
Yes indeed the name of father son and Holy Ghost in one

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called

Wonderful,

Counsellor,

The mighty God,

The everlasting Father,

The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30-33, 36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree his name is the only name there really is to be baptized into for a “Christian “ and he is the manifestation of the one God in the flesh the name revealed that all things are accomplished by is Jesus of Nazareth who it the promised messiah and the one who has promised us life by his name and word by his blood and his intercession for us even still.

“Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him,

seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Amen !! of course it’s Jesus name the whole Bible is about him prophecy and epistles the New Testament and even promises made to Abraham are based upon Jesus name for all nations

But also I dont think if someone’s pastor baptized them in “ the name of the father son and Holy Ghost “ it means they aren’t baptized or don’t have what I have because mostly everyone is saved according to thier faith . what they know in other words , not what they don’t know it wasn’t my choice to be baptized in Jesus name had my pastor said other words from the Bible I still would have been the same guy acting in faith of Jesus

But I agree in Jesus name is found everything
 

arthurfleminger

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Aug 18, 2021
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#28
The beginning of Romans 6 Paul describes Baptism as being reborn, “Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12, Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

And in Galatians 3:27 Paul likens baptism to “being clothed with Christ.” Paul says, “for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
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#29
So, is there any reason why a Christian shouldn't be baptized with water, 'In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
If there is a reason, what would it be?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
Nicodemus should have understood this

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

this is all he should have seen. because this is jesus explaining to him HOW to be born again.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
Jesus told Nicodemus that if one isn't born again of Water and the Spirit, they shall not enter the Kingdom of God.

In the New Testament, Baptism of Water and the Spirit follows a very clear pattern, beginning with John the Baptist and continuing to the present day.

John the Baptist clearly prophesizes/foretells that Jesus will 'Baptize with the Spirit. " Mark 1:8: I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." Luke 3:16 16John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Also make no mistake that throughout the Old and New Testament, all Baptism is a ritual performed with water. All Christian baptism is performed with water.

And, as I said, immediately after Jesus conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus and the Apostles went on a mission of baptizing. John 3:22 Then Jesus and his disciples left Jerusalem and went into the Judean countryside. Jesus spent some time with them there, baptizing people. And they were baptizing with water and the Spirit.

Just before Jesus ascended to heaven, He gave His apostles a new commission, and their mission consisted of Baptizing with water and the Spirit:

Matthew 28:16-20 16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Water has always been an essential part of baptism.

And the baptisms continued after Jesus' ascension, with water and the Spirit: Acts 2:38 On the Day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowd, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). His command concerning baptism was that it be done “in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Paul is clear that through Baptism we die and are reborn in Christ, Romans 6:4; Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism continues to this day, 2,000 years later, a baptism of water and the Spirit.

And, it is foolish to believe that Baptism is just a non essential ritual. Just before Jesus ascended to heaven, He told His apostles, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. " Mark 16:16

Jesus and His Apostles/Disciples put a great importance on Baptism. It's not just a ritual.
Baptism of water is one thing

baptism of the spirit is another thing

Jesus did not tell nicoduemus to be baptised. He explained to him how to be born again.

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already

No baptism involved
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
Obviously you have difficulty in believing Jesus, Mark 16:16, Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Why did jesus add baptism in mark 16 but not in any other place?

And even if he did say what mark said he said, Who says it is water baptism and not spirit?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#33
The beginning of Romans 6 Paul describes Baptism as being reborn, “Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12, Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

And in Galatians 3:27 Paul likens baptism to “being clothed with Christ.” Paul says, “for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”
The problem is your pastor can not baptise you into Christ, or his death

Only God can do this

Romans 6 is not about water baptism, it is about the act of God immersing you into the death and burial of christ where you are made a believer.

In fact. In romans 6 we are not even baptised into his ressurection yet. That is a future event, when we too are literally raised from the dead.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
So, is there any reason why a Christian shouldn't be baptized with water, 'In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
If there is a reason, what would it be?
Nope

But if we are doing it to EARN salvation.

We are trying to gain salvation by a work of righteousness which we have done

Paul makes it clear

titus 3, not by works of righteousness (like water baptism) which we have done, but hby his mercy he saved us by the washing (baptism) and renewal (new birth) of the Holy Spirit

it is God who baptised you, not man, and it is God who makes you alive, Again, not man
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,625
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#35
The beginning of Romans 6 Paul describes Baptism as being reborn, “Don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

This idea that we are made one with Christ through baptism is reiterated by Paul in Colossians 2:12, Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

And in Galatians 3:27 Paul likens baptism to “being clothed with Christ.” Paul says, “for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,152
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113
#36
So, is there any reason why a Christian shouldn't be baptized with water, 'In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
If there is a reason, what would it be?
Not one drop of water in Romans 6. Baptism is being placed into Jesus Christ, His body through belief in the gospel.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,152
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#37
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Baptism without water...it's a spiritual birth into Jesus Christ.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,255
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#39
Are there any examples of this from the Tanakh or is it all just tradition? I don't remember reading anything like this, but I may have forgotten.
Immersion into the gathering of water of the Mikvah in Judaism conversion is oral tradition of the Talmud.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,255
1,110
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#40
Give Old Testament Scripture that says this.

NOT Rabbinical writings that do NOT carry the weight of the Word.
The biblical Mikveh reference to Judaism conversion is only found in the Talmud. However, commands relevant to cleansing in the Mikveh (gathered waters) can be found in the Book of Leviticus. Interestingly, the immersion was required in association with the death of potential life in both men and woman. And cleansing from Leprosy which is understood to be a representation of sin.