Have you heard of this new movement that asserts that everyone is perfect yet flawed but should be accepted nonetheless?

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Feb 23, 2021
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#2
That doesn't sound at all like Christianity to me.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
Romans 3:10
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,814
5,616
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#3
I believe it's called Christianity.
Christianity is all about Jesus Christ. If you have confessed your sins, repented and received Jesus Christ as your redeemer then yes, all other believer will receive you just as they received Saul of Tarsus who had been arresting Christians just days earlier.

Christianity teaches that all have sinned, a concept that is not fully conveyed with your term of "flawed". It does not teach that we should accept everyone regardless because there are numerous verses of those that we should not accept. Basically anyone that denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and redeemed us from our sins by His atoning sacrifice on the Cross.
 
Sep 15, 2021
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#5
Christianity is all about Jesus Christ. If you have confessed your sins, repented and received Jesus Christ as your redeemer then yes, all other believer will receive you just as they received Saul of Tarsus who had been arresting Christians just days earlier.

Christianity teaches that all have sinned, a concept that is not fully conveyed with your term of "flawed". It does not teach that we should accept everyone regardless because there are numerous verses of those that we should not accept. Basically anyone that denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and redeemed us from our sins by His atoning sacrifice on the Cross.
Does God not accept all?
 
Feb 23, 2021
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#6
Does God not accept all?
No. Those who refuse to repent and believe in Jesus Christ are still the enemies of God. They will be judged by God.

We are to love our enemies. But God is Just as well as Loving. He showed his Love by providing Himself as Savior and Redeemer. But for those who refuse His Savior, God promises His Justice.

It is a lie to expect God to ignore the willful sins of those that despise their Creator.
 
Sep 15, 2021
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#7
No. Those who refuse to repent and believe in Jesus Christ are still the enemies of God. They will be judged by God.

We are to love our enemies. But God is Just as well as Loving. He showed his Love by providing Himself as Savior and Redeemer. But for those who refuse His Savior, God promises His Justice.

It is a lie to expect God to ignore the willful sins of those that despise their Creator.
I will have to ask you provide scripture to support your claims.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
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#8
Christianity is all about Jesus Christ. If you have confessed your sins, repented and received Jesus Christ as your redeemer then yes, all other believer will receive you just as they received Saul of Tarsus who had been arresting Christians just days earlier.

Christianity teaches that all have sinned, a concept that is not fully conveyed with your term of "flawed". It does not teach that we should accept everyone regardless because there are numerous verses of those that we should not accept. Basically anyone that denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and redeemed us from our sins by His atoning sacrifice on the Cross.
I keep hearing that we 'all' have sinned and I don't believe that's true at all. In order to sin, a person must commit a willful act against God. There are millions of children in the world who haven't reached the age of reason. How can you say these children have sinned when they don't know right from wrong. In order to sin, one must willingly choose to do so. So, how do you claim that we all have sinned?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,976
26,106
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#11
I keep hearing that we 'all' have sinned and I don't believe that's true at all. In order to sin, a person must commit a willful act against God. There are millions of children in the world who haven't reached the age of reason. How can you say these children have sinned when they don't know right from wrong. In order to sin, one must willingly choose to do so. So, how do you claim that we all have sinned?
We are born into sin being sons (and daughters) of Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.


Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. Do not
be amazed that I said,
‘You must be born again.’ John 3:6-7

A spiritual rebirth is required to escape the penalty for sin, which is death.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
113
#12
What does 'righteous' mean??????
That doesn't sound at all like Christianity to me.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”
Romans 3:10
You quote Romans 3:10. Unfortunately you quote it as a stand alone statement, out of context. The entire Cha 3 of Romans, by Paul, is instructing that the Jews, or anyone else. can become righteous through observance of the law.

However, make no mistake and have no doubt that Christians can become righteous. 2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
113
#13
We are born into sin being sons (and daughters) of Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.


Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. Do not
be amazed that I said,
‘You must be born again.’ John 3:6-7

A spiritual rebirth is required to escape the penalty for sin, which is death.

I do believe that we are all born with a 'sinful nature' but we do not become sinners until we reach the age of reason and choose to sin. I remember my first sins, lying and stealing, when I was only in the first grade. Maybe we are just arguing about the use of words. But having a sinful nature is not the same as being a sinner. A five year old child will sin later in life, but not before the child learns right from wrong. A sinful nature does not equate with being a sinner. A sin is an offense against God. Sin is anything that is contrary to the law or will of God. A child below the age of reason doesn't have the ability to sin.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,814
5,616
113
#14
Does God not accept all?
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 and every spirit that [a]confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already. 4 Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they as of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he who is not of God heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

You have it backwards. Everyone who is of God receives the word of God. We speak the gospel to all. Those who refuse to accept us reveal that they are of the spirit of error.

In the world we understand that there are all kinds and we are in the world but not of the world.

However, in the church Paul tells the Corinthians 2 And [a]ye are puffed up, and [b]did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you.

We don't tolerate sin in the church. For example the Lord rebuked Pergamum 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there some that hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication.

And He rebuked Thyatira 20 But I have this against thee, that thou sufferest [l]the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess; and she teacheth and seduceth my [m]servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.

And he told Laodicea 16 So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth. It seems to me saying "spew thee out of my mouth" is equivalent to not accepting them.

He tells us not to tolerate Jezebel, to rebuke those that teach certain things, and to deal with those who sin that they would be removed from the church. All of this is reiterated by Paul, Peter, James and Jude.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,814
5,616
113
#15
I keep hearing that we 'all' have sinned and I don't believe that's true at all. In order to sin, a person must commit a willful act against God. There are millions of children in the world who haven't reached the age of reason. How can you say these children have sinned when they don't know right from wrong. In order to sin, one must willingly choose to do so. So, how do you claim that we all have sinned?
If a child has not reached the age of reason then they can't have made a conscious decision to receive Jesus Christ.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
113
#16
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 and every spirit that [a]confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already. 4 Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they as of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he who is not of God heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

You have it backwards. Everyone who is of God receives the word of God. We speak the gospel to all. Those who refuse to accept us reveal that they are of the spirit of error.

In the world we understand that there are all kinds and we are in the world but not of the world.

However, in the church Paul tells the Corinthians 2 And [a]ye are puffed up, and [b]did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you.

We don't tolerate sin in the church. For example the Lord rebuked Pergamum 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there some that hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication.

And He rebuked Thyatira 20 But I have this against thee, that thou sufferest [l]the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess; and she teacheth and seduceth my [m]servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.

And he told Laodicea 16 So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth. It seems to me saying "spew thee out of my mouth" is equivalent to not accepting them.

He tells us not to tolerate Jezebel, to rebuke those that teach certain things, and to deal with those who sin that they would be removed from the church. All of this is reiterated by Paul, Peter, James and Jude.

You make a lot of old testament biblical quotes, unfortunately you are wrong and have he attitude of a Pharisee. It was the Pharisees who criticized Jesus for eating with and befriending tax collectors and sinners. After all, it was not the 'self proclaimed righteoous' that Jesus came for it was for sinners. And the church is full of sinners, in fact everyone there is a sinner. Jesus' church is a place for healing not for those who claim to be without sin.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,814
5,616
113
#17
You make a lot of old testament biblical quotes, unfortunately you are wrong and have he attitude of a Pharisee. It was the Pharisees who criticized Jesus for eating with and befriending tax collectors and sinners. After all, it was not the 'self proclaimed righteoous' that Jesus came for it was for sinners. And the church is full of sinners, in fact everyone there is a sinner. Jesus' church is a place for healing not for those who claim to be without sin.
None of those quotes were old testament, every single one was from the New testament.

I did not say one word about Jesus eating with sinners, I have already said that everyone is a sinner saved by grace.

The point is that does not mean there aren't false prophets, pernicious doctrines, Jezebel and those who are one with Satan, and people living in sin. We don't "accept" that in the church. The apostasy is due to people buying into this doctrine of tolerating everyone and everything.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,976
26,106
113
#18
I do believe that we are all born with a 'sinful nature' but we do not become sinners until we reach the age of reason and choose to sin. I remember my first sins, lying and stealing, when I was only in the first grade. Maybe we are just arguing about the use of words. But having a sinful nature is not the same as being a sinner. A five year old child will sin later in life, but not before the child learns right from wrong. A sinful nature does not equate with being a sinner. A sin is an offense against God. Sin is anything that is contrary to the law or will of God. A child below the age of reason doesn't have the ability to sin.
"You must be born again" is not so difficult to understand in light of the fact that the physical dies as a result of Adam's sin within whom we are all born. Some take this to mean that the soul of man is inherently immortal, but that flies in the face of what Scripture explicitly states, since God alone is immortal, and it is by grace through faith that we put on the incorruptibility, righteousness and immortality of Christ through His sinless life and sacrifice on our behalf due to His great and everlasting love. All those not found in Him at the end of this age, when all are resurrected to judgment, pass into the second death. How God judges the young is up to Him, and I am sure it will be just. What you say may be true, but is there a Scriptural basis for it? An age of reason given? I am curious :)
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
113
#19
I believe it's called Christianity.

You are correct. Jesus' apostles/disciples were all flawed/sinners. Yet, at the Last Supper Jesus showed proof of His acceptance of them. He told them something that applied to them and all His disciples down through the ages, He looked around the table and told them, and I paraphrase, "I consider you people to be my friends." What more proof do we need for God's acceptance of sinners.?
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
771
113
#20
No. Those who refuse to repent and believe in Jesus Christ are still the enemies of God. They will be judged by God.

We are to love our enemies. But God is Just as well as Loving. He showed his Love by providing Himself as Savior and Redeemer. But for those who refuse His Savior, God promises His Justice.

It is a lie to expect God to ignore the willful sins of those that despise their Creator.


You say, "It is a lie to expect God to ignore the willful sins of those that despise their Creator.[/QUOTE]" Well, you couldn't be more wrong when you say that. At the crucifixion, with Jesus beaten and nailed to the cross and the crowds mocking Him, He showed His great love for even those who despised and tortured/killed Him. He forgave them, didn't He?