If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

If you have studied behind any of the great theologians you would know that when Paul said, "not all of Israel are Israel" He was referring to "Jacob." His name was changed to "Israel" because of his faith in the coming Messiah.

Paul is saying that "all of Israel are not "Israel" in that they are not in the faith as was Jacob, (Israel). [...] Israel is not saved nationally as they thought by being given the Law. [...] Through the faith of Jacob (Israel) they are Israel.

Here comes one those angels from chapter 16 again. Do you think it was the same one who came and talked with John in verse 1 of chapter 17? Perhaps, but it could just as well be one of the other six who gives this magnificent tour. And so the angel told John, who as far I know hasn't taken a lunch break yet, to come and he will show him the beautiful bride, the Lamb's wife.

Next we will read about the beauty and splendor of this great city, the holy Jerusalem. And since Almighty God dwells there, guess what? We will be reading about HEAVEN! It's coming here!
We are now in the eternity. The Millennium is over. All that which offends has been consumed away for ever and ever in the lake of fire, to be remembered no more. And our Father has prepared a great and beautiful city which He now brings to earth and places squarely on the spot He picked out to be the headquarters of the universe for all eternity, Jerusalem (read Ezek. 16).

Earlier we saw John being carried away in the spirit by one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues to be given a grand tour of the Eternal City, New Jerusalem.


Do you look forward to this great city? Our forefathers did! Yes, they were well aware of the Eternal City and the very vision of it increased their faith. Abraham looked forward to it:

And not only Abraham, but Enoch and Noah and all the patriarchs desired that heavenly city.

And now we are privileged to be given a first hand description of some of the beauty and details of that great city. Of course its number one attribute is that our Father will be there.

The glory of God is that beautiful multicolored sparkling rainbow, the "shekinah" glory, that surrounds our Father. Do you remember we read of that glory and the jasper, etc. in the 4th chapter when John described God's throne and He that sat on it?

And so it is written that our Father will be with the beautiful new city descending out of heaven.

We are reading the actual description of the eternal city. Think about it! It is so easy for us to read parts of the Bible such as this as if it was story, and miss the reality of what is written. This is for real. It shall descend from heaven and contain twelve gates, one for each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. And the rest of the nations will be there also as we shall see in verse 24.

All that Revelation tells us is that there will be twelve gates, three on each of the four sides, and they will contain the names of the tribes of Israel. If we want more details all we have to do is read the rest of the Bible, it's all there. Ezekiel, for example, tells us whose name is on which gate:

And the name of the entire city for all of eternity is "The LORD is there", Yahveh Shamma.

…
Yes, Charlie, heaven will be here on earth.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

- Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)

Hi Itheophilus,

Yes, I'm very familiar with those verses--of course it's obvious by my postings that I do not believe in a millennial earthly kingdom---that is a 1000 year reign of Christ--I have asked for literal verses that say Christ will rule and reign on the earth 1000 years but no one has been able to share those. The verses you've shared are from Revelation of a Vision John sees which is filled with symbolism and strange imagery--some of which the angel interprets, some which is found elsewhere in scripture--others we need wisdom to understand.

There is only one Angel in revelation who speaks to John, not several--I'm not sure what you are talking about there.

"God sent “his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.” Revelatation 1:1-2

The verses you have shared are the New Heaven and Earth--as the current heavens and earth will be destroyed --this is clear from literal scripture.

"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." 2 Peter 3:7

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven

This is not what millennials believe--they believes Christ will reign on the PRESENT earth.

Here are just a few verses in Revelation regarding the 1,000-year Millennium, Laura.

Revelation 20:4-6

King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Why do we assume the Apostles were asking JESUS about His second coming in the Olivet Discourse when they didn't even know He was going anywhere at that point (Matt 24:3, Mark 13:4, Luke 21:7)?

"when will these things be" What things? The Temple being destroyed.

Jump to 38:53 if it doesn't already:

…
Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."

@pittsburghjoe . . . Notice that the word "world" in Greek manuscripts means "aion" meaning "age, or a period of time." Here, it’s clear: Jesus lays forth the seven events that must occur in order for this age to come to a close and Christ (Himself) to return. Simple.

That Laura, was Jesus Christ speaking of His Second Coming and taking possession of His throne on this earth!

Everyone will know the Lord in the Millenium reign

Context is critical, and if you take this out of context, you are going to fall into error.



1. To whom was this said? To Pontius Pilate, Roman governor of Judea



2. When was it said? Before Christ's crucifixion



3. Why was it said? So that Pilate would know that Christ would not be trying to have Himself rescued.



4. Was this a denial that Christ was King of the Jews? Absolutely not. See verses 33-34.



So what was Jesus teaching us here?



1. His present Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom, where He rules in the hearts of His people. At the same time He was literally crucified as King of the Jews, and Pilate was the one who announced this to the whole world in Latin, Hebrew, and Greek.



2. But that spiritual Kingdom will be true only until the Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory".



4. After His Second Coming, Christ will set up His literal, visible, physical and spiritual Kingdom on earth, and rule the nations with a rod of iron. This will be the Millennial Kingdom of Christ.



REVELATION 20: THE MILLENIAL KINGDOM OF CHRIST

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Simply put I love your zeal...you just are all over the map on your understanding.

Do you think that Christ's ministry was a foreshadow of what we can expect in the millennial kingdom?

To the title question: It is here, so the question is moot.

View attachment 233336 View attachment 233337 View attachment 233338 View attachment 233339 View attachment 233340 View attachment 233341 View attachment 233342 View attachment 233343 View attachment 233344 View attachment 233345


If you can handle 15-20 min of video start watching this one at 12:42

Laughable that Christ is ruling on His Throne at the present!

Matt. 22:44

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

God is preparing the Throne for Christ as we speak! Many things must take place in the future before Christ takes His throne on this earth and rules over the nations.

For example: Christ said that "ye are the salt of the world." I think it's pretty obvious that believers are not salt. This is to be taken spiritually.

This is the principle in which I read the scripture, I take it literally until it becomes obvious it's not!

You can't just go through the scripture and say this and that is spiritual and not literal without a reason!!!

You are the salt of the earth is a metaphor, not a symbol--Jesus expands on his meaning, but metaphors are not mysteries. We all can discern the comparison of the two. Revelation is a vision--visions are not metaphors--the imagery is representative of something else. "A symbol is a signifier that communicates something beyond itself"--note that Revelations begins with saying the vision signifies. For example the dragon is not being compared to rulers it represents rulers--so too, the many waters is not compared to people it is representative of people.

In like manner we know based on the rest of scripture the 1000 year reign represents a long period of time--as I said in my other posts every time the number 1000 is used in the bible, it is representative of a great number--such as 'a cattle on a thousand hills'--of course God owns ALL the cattle that have ever existed!

God has given us the Holy Spirit, to discern spiritual things but we also must use the mind he has given us to understand the difference between figurative and literal language--Revelation is a VISION filled with symbols and imagery--some the angel explains, others are symbols we must discern--and we use other scripture to do this, and of course the wisdom he gives u.

There are too many literal verses in the New Testament as well as Old Testament prophecies that say Christ came once to die, then he comes one other time (called the Second Coming) to judge the world and gather His elect. Immediately after this the heavens and earth are destroyed and there is a new heaven and new earth.

The literal meaning is that Christ has reigned since his ascension and is reigning now. and we are also reigning with Him because he lives in us! Satan was bound at Christ's death--note Revelation says 1000 years for both. This is the plain meaning--again we know this as we compare the rest of scripture. Scripture never contradicts itself.

To believe somehow Christ will rule on earth before the judgment negates the literal verses in scripture. And Jesus himself said "My kingdom is not of this world."

"
8 Dear friends, remember this one thing, with the Lord one day is as 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about keeping His promise as some people think. He is waiting for you. The Lord does not want any person to be punished forever. He wants all people to be sorry for their sins and turn from them. 10 The day of the Lord will come as a robber comes. The heavens will pass away with a loud noise. The sun and moon and stars will burn up. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, you should think about the kind of life you are living. It should be holy and God-like. 12 You should look for the day of God to come. You should do what you can to make it come soon. At that time the heavens will be destroyed by fire. And the sun and moon and stars will melt away with much heat. 13 We are looking for what God has promised, which are new heavens and a new earth. Only what is right and good will be there."--2 Peter 3

Finish the verse! "and now is not my Kingdom of this earth."

It's yet to come!

And please finish reading what I wrote. You add "and now is not my kingdom of THIS EARTH."


All who do not believe in a literal millennial reign believe this, so i don't understand your point.

You defend your position without studying the evidence in the rest of scripture--and you respond without reading what I wrote. By the way, I am still waiting for those literal verses elsewhere in scripture (not Revelation)

You don't seem to see the obvious contradictions in scripture to this theology--I suggest praying for God to take off the doctrinal lens that you are filtering scripture with--you are in fact indoctrinated and don't realize how blind you are to the truth--that you are believing a LIE.

And a very dangerous one.

I have spent many years studying this scripture and have determined the covenant theologists are wrong!

There is a millennial reign of Christ on this earth, but it's not now, it's yet to come when God brings all things to pass for the Kingdom to be brought forth.

Yes, ok, I'm blind and can't see afar off!

Laughable that Christ is ruling on His Throne at the present!

Matt. 22:44

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

God is preparing the Throne for Christ as we speak! Many things must take place in the future before Christ takes His throne on this earth and rules over the nations.

Laughable that Christ is ruling on His Throne at the present!

Matt. 22:44

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

God is preparing the Throne for Christ as we speak! Many things must take place in the future before Christ takes His throne on this earth and rules over the nations.