How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

I understand. I am not a KJV only type, but I do prefer that everyone uses the same version in Bible studies, debates, etc. Can we agree to use the KJV? How is "the full number of" hinted at in Rev. 6:11 in the KJV? I don't see it.

Here are another couple of interesting links showing the word "apostasis" and one of its definitions / translations:



rising
noun
LINK
rising - English-Ancient Greek (to 1453) dictionary
TRANSLATIONS
ἀπόστασις · ἀποστασία [apostasis - apostasia]
GRAMMAR

• rising ( comparative more rising, superlative most rising)
• rising ( plural risings)
• rising (not comparable)
• rising (plural risings)

-- ἀπόστασις in English - Ancient Greek (to 1453)-English Dictionary | Glosbe

[ ^ bold word in link is "apostasis"]



[and]


rising in Ancient Greek (to 1453)
English-Ancient Greek (to 1453) dictionary

rising

adjective noun verb adposition + grammar

• Present participle of rise.

+15 definitions
TRANSLATIONS rising

• ἀπόστασις [apostasis]
  feminine

• ἀποστασία [apostasia]

-- rising in Ancient Greek (to 1453) - English-Ancient Greek (to 1453) Dictionary | Glosbe



____________




Interesting... yup.





[and yes I do believe Paul knew what he was saying when he used this word in the 2Th2:3 context... the definition is not limited to "FROM THE FAITH" as some would insist on injecting INTO this word... that is only derived by other CONTEXTS where this word is also used...]

...and quite the listing under "apostasis" here (1940 edition of "Liddell and Scott"):

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Α α, , ἀπόσταγμα , ἀπό-στα^σις (tufts.edu)



...whereas just two entries earlier was the "apostasia" word that says under that entry "late form for apostasis" (as I had pointed out before):

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Α α, , ἀπόσταγμα , ἀπο-στα^σία (tufts.edu)

[1940 edition]

The word "apostasia" was also used in phrases saying:

--the "departure" of a fever

--the "departure" of a boat from a dock


(i.e. "spatial / geographical" departures).




Again, it is the CONTEXT that determines just "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant, in any given text.



(and in 2Th2:3 it is "THE departure"--a definite [/particular] one [...and note again what had been posted about the functions of the definite article "the"])

You must study it again. You missed it.

The LORD, and the Apostle John and again Paul all agree and say the exact same thing, falling away/departure from truth, and yet they refuse to accept and embrace their words = amazing.

Rev 14 :14 is the gathering of the jews....complete with a first fruit Jewish gathering of firstfruits early in that chapter.

" for the elect sakes....".

Trying to make numbers fit a doctrine, is like a tail wagging the dog.

God is a God of purpose.
If you skip seeking purpose, or understanding it, we can randomly ascribe meaning to verses.

Only pretrib rapture doctrine addresses purpose.

Some need it to not be that.

So they muddy it up

pre-trib, the continual sin of "adding to Gods word"

That is a good question. Since it is just after the rapture (which will happen just before the 6th seal) so He will be in heaven with His bride. God can certainly pour out His wrath through the trumpet and vial judgments while He is in heaven. According to John, He does not return to Armageddon until some unknown time AFTER the 70th week has finished (at the 7th vial.)

Yes
In bible gateway there are over 500 references to "7".

Gen 7
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

5 And Noah did all that the Lord commanded him.

6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.

An interesting scenario would be a pre-trib rapture and 7 Days Later Here Comes the Flood. (Or basically the AC installed in a power grab by the Devil man with the mark in the forehead overseen by dr faucci...lol)
The bride being secured in heaven Illustrated by Noah and 7 other people in the ark, (a type of Heaven).

I just saw that after all that discussion over "7" and some calling "7" a nothingburger in the end times. LOL

The LORD, and the Apostle John and again Paul all agree and say the exact same thing, falling away/departure from truth, and yet they refuse to accept and embrace their words = amazing.

pre-trib, the lie that never stops

" falling away" is implied.
It only says departure.
It serves niether side.
Postribs need it to say one thing

Pretribbers another.

I can accept either rendering.

It does NOT CHANGE A SINGLE THING....NOTHING.

The AC can be REVEALED one day before the rapture...then INSTALLED a month later ....and we STILL HAVE a pretrib rapture.

They are letting you get off of calling folks ...liar...on this forum.....but, I would strongly advise against calling God a liar.

Nice try, but you missed it big time.

First, the bible does not "title" the last half of the week as "the great tribulation." Man does that.

Matthew 24:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Do you see it? Jesus is saying there will be "those days" of GT. What will cause "those days" of "GT?" It will be the enforcing of mark and forcing people to bow to an image. When or where in Revelation will those days of GT begin? Not until AFTER God gives the warning not to take the mark, as we read in chapter 14. So the days of GT Jesus spoke about will start late in chapter 14 and go into chapter 15.

On the other hand, the time of the 70th week is written in stone, so to speak, as START -> 1260 days -> MIDPOINT ABOMINATION - > 1260 days -> END. Finding the 70th week marked in Revelation was the first thing God sent me to find. Where exactly does the week start? It is marked with a 7: the 7th seal. Where exactly will the man of sin enter the temple and stop the daily sacrifices? The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven to mark that exact time. I believe that is when he is "revealed" as the Beast. Then all those who know the scriptures will know who the Antichrist Beast is. And right after that, John saw the Beast rising.

John has given us the last half marked out in stone, as we say, 5 times and three different ways. It is certainly going to last for those 1260 days and for the 42 months. But the WEEK ends on the 1260th day while the Beast gets to live a while longer, the unknown time between the 7th vial and His coming as shown in chapter 19.

"Those days" of "GT" will last until God sends the angels to pour out the vials with plagues to shorten "those days." The vials and plagues will make it impossible for the world to continue to hunt down believers and murder them. The days of GT will cease, but DAYS will continue to the 7th vial that ends the week. Notice, however, that the 42 months countdown of authority started last so will end last. The Beast lives past the end of the week. He will be busy leading the armies of the world that come to Israel, as they attempt to wipe Israel off the map. I am convinced WAR will be going on in Israel, while the marriage and supper are taking place in heaven. By the time Jesus descends, all hope will be gone for those left alive in Israel: they will be at the place where they KNOW, if God does not help, Israel will be gone forever. Jerusalem will be surrounded. But then Jesus comes.

YOu seem always to look for "clear verses." Often God does not provide clear verses. The 7 years is there, but it is not at first obvious.
The truth is, God "marked" the 70th week with 7's so we can easily find it.

Oh no...

Not another pretrib rapture dynamic!!!!!

We cant have that.

Let me counter with a postrib rapture verse..

Oh wait...none exists.
But you just hold on...there has to be one in that bible!!!!!

Hey
...i got one!!
Noah.
He went through the gt and got removed up.up.up into the heavens AFTER THE FLOOD!!!!!

OH wait....
He went into the ark BEFORE THE FLOOD....and unfortunately was carried up to heavens at the start.

Man....i thought i actually had me a man centered verse.

That bible destroys the doctrines of men

You are mistaken - as usual. There have been many times "great tribulation" has come to earth. If you notice, those two words were NOT ENOUGH For Jesus to describe the days of GT He was talking about. He had to add that "those days" would be worse than any other time on earth, past to future. Therefore, God can use the two words, "great tribulation" in other places and NOT MEAN those days of GT that will be greater than any other time.

Have you never studied the commentaries on Rev. 7 to see what the knowledge base of yesterday has to say?

Ellicott’s Commentary tells us;
“They are those who come, not all at once, but gradually. The saints of God are continually passing into the unseen world, and taking their place among the spirits of just men made perfect.”

Gill’s Commentary said it this way:
“the great tribulation, out of which they came, is not to be restrained to any particular time of trouble, but includes all that has been, is, or shall be…”

The Pulpit Commentary said it this way:
“The question arises What is ‘the great tribulation' referred to? Probably all the tribulation which has been passed through by the redeemed, all that which pertained to the life through which they have passed.”

Alford’s Commentary said it this way:
I would rather understand it of the whole sum of the trials of the saints of God, viewed by the Elder as now complete, and designated by this emphatic and general name…”

Benson’s commentary says,
“Yet these could not be all martyrs, for the martyrs could not be such a multitude as no man could number… All these may be said, more or less, to come out of great tribulation, of various kinds, wisely and graciously allotted by God to all his children...”

I think these commentaries "nailed it" as we say. This GT in Rev. 7 is speaking of the nearly 2000 years of life on earth as believers. In other words, "In the world ye shall have tribulation," but speaking of 2000 years of it combined for the church.

Where you miss it: in Revelation chapter 7, the 70th week HAS NOT STARTED.

Have you ever been to a play where they close the curtain between acts? What happens behind the curtain? They are rearranging the set to fit the next act. This is what John does in chapter 7. TWO EVENTS must take place before the 7th seal can be broken to start the 70th week. God MUST see the 144,000 sealed for their protection, and He must see the church safely in heaven. THEN and only then will the 7th seal be opened to start the week. Since the Day of His wrath has already started, showing us that God is angry, then it is obvious that the first trumpet judgment will come with His wrath.

Wait till you try to nail him down on timing of the rapture.

You will never figure it out.

He will indicate postrib. Then go into the old wrath vs trib. Then you will pigeon hole him as "mid. Trib" only to find out he is not that either.

But he will take you into his anti pretrib workbook where lie and liars are on every page and sentence he makes.

In Context it means that after the graves of those who were IN Christ have been emptied and the bodies are flying up into the air, those that are alive and in Christ did not move (YET) with the dead in Christ: they are "remaining" on earth (for a very short moment.)