Why The Father has no beginning from the context of time

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Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#61
Sep 2, 2020
12,329
4,981
113
#61
unelie said:
Well, I think it is hard to explain, we are kind of studying prophecy with very little context.

When the text says "they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases" I don't think it means they will just need to get out around anywhere on the new earth to see this, but that we can go to the lake of fire, and there we could see the reality of the judgement, with the carcasses of the rebels.

Rev 20:13-15
13- The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
14- Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15- If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

It looks like this lake of fire is not on the new earth, since death is no more on the new earth, and clearly this lake of fire "is the second death".

Rev 21:4
4- He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”

Conclusion : I do not believe that we will see carcasses of men everywhere on the new earth, but somehow there will be somewhere the lake of fire where all of this will be (it looks like this lake is not on the new earth, but somewhere else, somehow).

However, clearly is still happening after the new earth is made, since this (the second death) is after the final judgment.

Indeed, it is said :
Rev 20:5
5- The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished.

But Rev 20:13-15, final judgment, is talking about all the dead, therefore this is after the thousand years are finished.
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amen !

there’s definitely a place of torment for ever and ever created for Satan and the angels who transgressed and fought against Christs rule.

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:5, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems this place Jesus spoke of about his judgement where men will also follow

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

….And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41, 46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems to be the same place and sort of connect to having the mark of the beast in johns apacolypse

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice,

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;

and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-12‬ ‭KJV


it is created for Satan and his angels to torment them forever to show Gods vengeance against all wickedness of men done in all history. Imagine the trillions of people and many who have done great injustices to Gods innocent beloved people.

“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:19‬

There is going to be vengeance against the wicked without question and a living soul is alive

Mysterious for sure definately something to it all though


“And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
R

Rondonmon

Senior Member
#62
May 13, 2016
1,288
176
63
#62
Nehemiah6 said:
Here is something which is relevant to the eternality of God and Christ:
Most Americans, many Christians don't believe Jesus existed before the manger
"The average person isn’t quite as sure about the Son of God’s existence prior to Jesus’ birth. Around 2 in 5 (41%) say God’s son existed before Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Close to 1 in 3 Americans (32%) disagree, and 28 percent say they’re not sure."

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...ce=wnd&utm_medium=wnd&utm_campaign=syndicated
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They are right in that Jesus was the MAN/Flesh that Emanuel (God with us) came unto us in named Jesus. But Jesus was/is an eternal being, the Son of God as is the Holy Spirit. The Father has the abundance of the Glory. So, I can see how some confuse the issue, their are man people who do not know the deep things of God. On the surface they understand the basics, but the deep truths they never understand.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#64
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
#64
ResidentAlien said:
It's impossible for me to comprehend the eternal God. My mind naturally wants to know who created God. How could He exist from eternity to eternity? Where did He come from? Etc. It's mind boggling!

This will probably be my first question when I get to heaven.
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He will say to you exactly what He said to the disciples, you are now thinking in the flesh... :p
 
R

Rondonmon

Senior Member
#65
May 13, 2016
1,288
176
63
#65
unelie said:
Well, I think it is hard to explain, we are kind of studying prophecy with very little context.

When the text says "they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases" I don't think it means they will just need to get out around anywhere on the new earth to see this, but that we can go to the lake of fire, and there we could see the reality of the judgement, with the carcasses of the rebels.

Rev 20:13-15
13- The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
14- Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15- If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

It looks like this lake of fire is not on the new earth, since death is no more on the new earth, and clearly this lake of fire "is the second death".

Rev 21:4
4- He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.”

Conclusion : I do not believe that we will see carcasses of men everywhere on the new earth, but somehow there will be somewhere the lake of fire where all of this will be (it looks like this lake is not on the new earth, but somewhere else, somehow).

However, clearly is still happening after the new earth is made, since this (the second death) is after the final judgment.

Indeed, it is said :
Rev 20:5
5- The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished.

But Rev 20:13-15, final judgment, is talking about all the dead, therefore this is after the thousand years are finished.
Click to expand...
The Second Death is after the 1000 year reign and after the New Heaven and earth. Since Peter tells us this earth will one day be a ball of fire in 2 Peter 3:10:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

So, what does this mean? It means tat starting with the Day f the Lord God's Wrath, the Lord/Jesus/God starts taking over in the middle of the week, BUT the Day of the Lord not only lasts fir his 3.5 years of Wrath, but lasts for his 1000 year reign, WHICH BRINGS what Peter shows us above, this earth will be melted with fervent heat !! BUT WHY? I believe because this earth will be Hell !! Satan will have gained his prize possession once and for all, the dead are all raised and Judged, Satan is loosed, and God burns them all up with fire.

This earth will be hell, after we go to the New Jerusalem, God will burn up this earth and Satan and all of his followers will be contained on this planet forever, burning and burning. I get this by adding all the pieces together.
 
U

unelie

Active member
#66
Nov 28, 2021
113
26
28
#66
Thank you @Pilgrimshope and @Rondonmon for your studies. I can see you actually study the Word, eeven if I don't necessarily agree with everything this is great to study with fellow christians :)
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#68
Sep 2, 2020
12,329
4,981
113
#68
unelie said:
Thank you @Pilgrimshope and @Rondonmon for your studies. I can see you actually study the Word, eeven if I don't necessarily agree with everything this is great to study with fellow christians :)
Click to expand...
yes i think all Of us myself included can learn some things if we listen to what scripture and everyone else has to say and the scripture they may have to share

if we can resist doing this when we come together

“For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then We can do this as a group

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the big group discussions where a few students of scripture chime in where there’s relative peace disagreement yes often , but respect and some form
Of understanding that Jesus loves the person we’re talking to because they believe in his name

“For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We don’t have to understand everything exactly the same but if we are humble our beliefs will conform to scripture and be in line with each other more so than if we consider only what one or two has to say

I learn something useful almost every time I come here just reading quietly through some of the wiser people here and their posts the more people who interact the more potential for edification but the catch 22 is the arguing sort of is like the ice burg and titanic
 
F

Friend

Active member
#69
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
#69
Yes the one who raised Jesus from the dead is the Ancient of Days

Dan 7:13 “I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, One like a Son of Man was coming on the clouds of heaven. And He came up to be presented before the Ancient of Days.

But Jesus is seamlessly and forever indwelt by God as one substance and will be saying “Come up Here!” so we can get out of this place

Jesus has a mystery and says "the seven lampstands are the seven churches"


Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

Jesus says He "walks among the seven golden lamp stands"

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He "has the Seven Spirits of God". We see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

There is a door open in heaven and a Voice like a trumpet "Says Come Up Here"
"After These Things"

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: that's right He said they were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

Let's do a little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there in the Head of the Lamb is Seven Eyes that are said to be the Seven Spirits of God that were sent out into ALL THE EARTH. So We are on The Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promise.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Dan 7:13“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, One like a Son of Man was coming on the clouds of heaven. And He came up to be presented before the Ancient of Days.

People ask where the Rapture is in the old Testament. It's in the Little Book/Daniel where we see many aspects of Revelations.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’” ​
 
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