New argument for Jesus being God

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TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#1
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
139
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#2
1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,903
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#3
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
that's #94 in this list:

Christ is God Omnibus Thread post #910


:)
 

BonnieClaire

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2021
382
398
63
#4
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
Does it feel strange to call Jesus the Almighty?
Here's one for anyone who doesn't already know it.



Now follow along carefully...


In Revelation 2:8 we discover that the First and the Last was dead, but now is alive...

Revelation 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; ~KJV



In Revelation 22:13 we discover that the First and the Last is also the Alpha and Omega, and the Beginning and the End...

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. ~KJV



In Revelation 1:8 we learn that the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty...

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ~KJV



The one who was dead, but now is alive was Jesus of course...the Almighty.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,582
5,875
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#6
[
Does it feel strange to call Jesus the Almighty?
Here's one for anyone who doesn't already know it.



Now follow along carefully...


In Revelation 2:8 we discover that the First and the Last was dead, but now is alive...

Revelation 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; ~KJV



In Revelation 22:13 we discover that the First and the Last is also the Alpha and Omega, and the Beginning and the End...

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. ~KJV



In Revelation 1:8 we learn that the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty...

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ~KJV



The one who was dead, but now is alive was Jesus of course...the Almighty.
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,582
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#7
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
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#8
I have posted this before. I come to the conclusion that Jesus is God from common sense. And here is my reasoning:

Jesus Asked, “Who Do You Say That I Am?”

Jesus asked His Disciples that important question, “Who do men say that I Am?”

So, who is Jesus? Let’s take a look at His life and begin with a plain fact. Throughout all history, it would be hard to find anyone whose life has had a greater impact on the world than Jesus’.

A famous author, an atheist named, H.G. Wells said, “I am not a believer, but as an historian, I must confess that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is easily the most dominant person in all history.”

Jesus’ impact on the world is amazing when we recall that he lived 2,000 years ago in a small town. We know almost nothing about His first 30 years on earth. He never traveled far from home as an adult, never held political office, never wrote a book, never invented something, never discovered anything, never led an army into battle, and He never amassed great wealth.

The three short years of His public ministry were spent mainly in small villages. He avoided publicity and commanded His followers not to tell anyone of the miracles that they saw Him perform. He never did any of the things that are considered to be historic.

Indeed, He is remembered by eyewitnesses for being rejected by his own people, that He died naked, penniless, shamed, virtually alone, and in great agony. He appeared to be a spectacular failure.

So how is it then that Jesus has become the most influential person in the history of the world? Christians see Him as their Savior, other religions regard Him as a holy man. Nations, Cultures, even people of no Christian faith have been deeply influenced by Jesus and His teachings.

Albert Einstein wrote, I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene. He added, “No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.”

So, what sets this man apart from the billions of others who have lived upon this earth? Jesus appears to be like some other religious figures, preaching love of neighbor and urging people to turn to God. But something separates Jesus from all the others.

Other religious leaders like Moses, Buddha, Mohammed, or Confucius had a message about God or about the right way of living. But the most they had to say about themselves was that they were prophets or wise teachers.

Unlike all these other religious figures Jesus made a far more radical claim. He claimed to be a more than a messenger from God, He claimed to be the actual Message, the Very Word of God. In short, His identity is the issue.

Jesus demanded the apostles make a decision and asked them, “Who do you say that I Am?”

Actually, the possible answers to this question are surprisingly limited.

Let’s look at some of the non-believer attempts to explain Jesus.

Many non-Christians see Jesus just as being a good man, a wise man, and a great teacher.

And yet, we miss the point entirely if we treat Jesus merely as a good and wise teacher, because Jesus made far greater claims. In fact, Jesus claimed, both directly and indirectly, to be God!

When Jesus claimed to forgive sins, He was making the claim that it was He was the One who was offended by men’s sins. He was criticized for forgiving sins, because only God can forgive sins. And his critics were right, Only God can forgive sins, and Jesus never disputed that.

Jesus claimed that before Abraham was, I Am. Understand what Jesus claimed here. Jesus claimed to be, “I Am”, and I Am is the Name by which God revealed Himself to Moses. Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. The religious leaders understood perfectly what He was saying and they picked up stones and attempted to kill Him for blasphemy. (John 8:58)

Jesus guided by word and example, forgiving, loving and caring for others. But far more than showing us the way, Jesus claimed that He is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; and that no one can come to the Father but by Me.

When Jesus appeared to the Apostle Thomas, Thomas fell to the ground and worshiped Jesus praying to Him, My Lord and my God!” Being strict Jews, Jesus and the apostles worshiped only one God, but when Thomas fell down and worshiped Jesus as God, neither Jesus nor any of the other apostles corrected him. It is clear that none of Jesus disciples thought that Jesus was only a good and wise teacher. Instead, Jesus accepted Thomas’ worship, acknowledging that He is the one God of Israel.

If Jesus’ claims of being God weren’t true, then He could not have been a wise man, a good man, or a great teacher. Instead He would have been an egomaniac, an evil and ignorant man who didn’t teach truth. But, if Jesus’ claims are true then He is certainly much more than a good and wise teacher.

Because Jesus taught that He is God and that we are not. He emphasized that He is from above and that we are from below, that we are sinners and that He is without sin, and that God is one. Jesus had a thoroughly Jewish concept of the God of Israel; and Jesus clearly stated a number of times, “I Am!”

One atheist, who converted to Christianity, was the great protestant thinker and writer, C.S. Lewis. He wrote, “Jesus claimed to be God, so there are only two possibilities, either He is God or He is not God.” There are no other possibilities.

He added, if Jesus is not God, then we are left with two options: He either knows that He is not God and is a liar, or he is a lunatic and mistakenly thinks that He is God.

If Jesus was a liar, His lies were about the most important things imaginable. For a man to lie about such claims to His friends and followers, He would have to been deeply evil.

Liars tell lies in the pursuit of some gain. So, if Jesus was a liar, for what purpose? What does Jesus gain as a result of His lies? Earthly power? No, when men try to crown Him, He runs away. Status? No, He only wins the admiration of unimportant people; prostitutes, tax collectors, fishermen, along with the undying hatred of powerful men bent on His destruction.

When He is on trial for His life, why would He lie when asked if He is the Christ, the Son of God? He didn’t hesitate. He answered, I AM, (Mark 14:62) thereby inviting crucifixion, the most horrific death known to man. No liar, bent on earthly gain would do this.

So, if Jesus is not God and not a liar, we are left with only one other alternative; He was mistakenly insane. The trouble with this thought is that there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Jesus was insane. Study His interactions with His enemies or His warm conversations with His friends. No one ever thought that He was a deranged man, out of His wits.

So, if Jesus wasn’t a compulsive liar or insane, it begins to look as though there is difficulty in accounting for Jesus in any other way but the way that Peter did. When Jesus asked him, “Who do you say that I AM.” Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

And Jesus asks the same question to all people, throughout time, He asks the same question of you and me, “Who do you say that, I Am?”

ONE FINAL THOUGHT

The Apostles were the people who knew Jesus best. And they believed His claims. They believed so much that they would go out into a world filled with wolves and spread Jesus’ Gospel. Except for John, all of them willingly gave up their lives in martyrdom for their Lord and God.[/QUOTE]
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,108
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#9
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
I think it is interesting (I mean this respectfully) when I hear the statement " New argument for Jesus being God".


That comment must be understood in the light of the word of God and Orthodox Christianity or Christian theology.

1. Jesus has never been attacked more than about Hid Deity or being God than today. Liberal theology which was started in 1920s which led to the 1961 stronghold taken on the church.

GOD IS DEAD! therefore eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. is a widely quoted statement made by the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

"the phrase to express his idea that the Enlightenment had eliminated the possibility of the existence of God. However, proponents of the strongest form of the Death of God theology have used the phrase in a literal sense, meaning that the Christian God, who had existed at one point, has ceased to exist."

the profane speaking of the Lord is nothing new however, today's is an ideology created through this liberal theology which never agreed Jesus is God. BUT this teaching was greatly rebuked then, but not today.

Why?

Well, many reasons, here are few:

  1. the destruction of the family as God meant it to be. As the family goes so does the church
  2. The overwhelming biblical illiteracy and lack of commitment to studying the word of God
  3. NO PRAYER LIFE, the church moves on its knees.
  4. Over access to information that has no standard of accountability ( Jerry rig Teachers) on social media and the net.
  5. The spirit of the antichrist is greatly attacking

These are just a few, I am sure many of you can be added to it.

The fact we even have to address and defend that Jesus is the only for eternal life and is God to those who profess to be Christians should be very telling to Christians those who do such things are not saved and are of the spirit of antichrist as

1cor chapter 12: 3

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.




Matthew 10:33


"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny you before my Father which is in heaven."

2Tim 2:12

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2Tim 3: 5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


Titus1:16


They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2Pet 2:1

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

To deny Lord Jesus Christ as God, and then try to use the very word of God to teach Jesus is not God; the Second Person of the Godhead can only be done by those who do not know Him, or in a relationship with Him. Therefore they can not be saved and not agree HE Jesus is God. The idea Jesus is not God is to suggest that HE is not the only way to Heaven. GOD is DEAD! therefore postmodernism and liberal theology are doctrines of devils that attack Christ and the God of Christianity. Human intellect is god, and human reasoning is god, not God of the bible.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
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#10
To not know that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate - fully God and fully Human is not to know Him at all.

Perhaps the more troubling question today, is this:

Is the Jesus Christ, which you claim to know, a "Peccable" Saviour or an "Impeccable" Saviour? In this question, is the true knowledge of the Jesus you know. Only one answer is the correct Jesus of Scripture. The other is Heresy.

Why is this important? Because one makes Christ like our fallen selves - the other protects His Divinity and perfect human nature.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,108
4,372
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#11
To not know that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate - fully God and fully Human is not to know Him at all.

Perhaps the more troubling question today, is this:

Is the Jesus Christ, which you claim to know, a "Peccable" Saviour or an "Impeccable" Saviour? In this question, is the true knowledge of the Jesus you know. Only one answer is the correct Jesus of Scripture. The other is Heresy.

Why is this important? Because one makes Christ like our fallen selves - the other protects His Divinity and perfect human nature.

The idea that Jesus sinned" Peccable' is profane.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,349
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#13
21Tell and bring forth your case;
Yes, let them take counsel together.
Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.

22“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.
24He shall say,
[g]‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength.
To Him men shall come,
And all shall be ashamed
Who are incensed against Him.
25In the Lord all the descendants of Israel
Shall be justified, and shall glory.’ ”
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,108
4,372
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#14
21Tell and bring forth your case;
Yes, let them take counsel together.
Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.

22“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.
24He shall say,
[g]‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength.
To Him men shall come,
And all shall be ashamed
Who are incensed against Him.
25In the Lord all the descendants of Israel
Shall be justified, and shall glory.’ ”

If one doesn't know Jesus is the very one spoken about here, the very Expression of God face to face, and the very person every knee will bow and Confess HE is the Supreme Authority = Lord, all above and below to HIM as GOD. one doesn't know the full word of God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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#15
Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
Not sure if this was addressed to the prophet Daniel. But Daniel presented Jesus as "the Prince of Princes" and "Messiah" as well as "the Son of Man" who would establish the Kingdom of God on earth.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,349
1,070
113
#16
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


I really don't know how Christidelphians think they can get away with "jesus is Savior but not God". It makes as much sense as Jews thinking that their savior was going to be someone besides God.
 
Jul 24, 2021
494
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#18
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
I think someone is cherrypicking. A few verses up

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,582
5,875
113
#19
[/QUOTE]

yeah I’m not sure why the subject keeps coming up pretty much everyone agrees. I think the issue becomes “the trinity “ doctrine

people hear about three Father , Son and Holy Ghost

but they are connecting the part where they are one.

So you have God in heaven

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And you have the word who is God made flesh in the Son whos spirit is the Holy Ghost in other words you then have God manifest in earth the same record in heaven manifest in earth in Jesus Christ

“This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the only dofference in father the word and the Holy Ghost and father son and Holy Ghost is the word was made flesh and came into the world to bear witness to the truth in heaven

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭

he is the God of heaven and earth manifest in truth and full I think verses like this seem to convince me

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s really no other way to take that than in Christ you find the father n and Holy Ghost in one being who walked among us. When Jesus spoke he made a point to usually say

“And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Father and son walked among us and the holy spirit of Christ the son of man is given to the children

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everything he’s done is for us when all was darkness he created light and life and when all was lost through man he became our savior and redeemer
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#20
God Circumcises hearts? Or, is it Christ?

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

Ahhh . . . it is both Christ and God who Circumcises our heart, thus Jesus is God. But wait . . . there's more!

Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

So now a third . . . being the Holy Spirit who produces a change of heart, which is True Circumcision, that which physical circumcision represents.

Thus, God is God, Christ is God, the Holy Spirit is God. All Translations are clear that the Three take responsibility for Spiritual Circumcision. How is that possible unless they are three in one?