Ham
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That's obviously wrong:
Gen_9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
No, he did not.
None of that is scriptural. There was no command to be celibate on the Ark and no evidence anyone was conceived on the Ark.
This also is not scriptural. Most of this post was made up and does not come from the bible at all.
Gen_9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
No, he did not.
None of that is scriptural. There was no command to be celibate on the Ark and no evidence anyone was conceived on the Ark.
This also is not scriptural. Most of this post was made up and does not come from the bible at all.
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isn’t the law a result of transgression though ? What I mean is the righteousness of the law was imprinted on man in the beginning it was our nature until they ate the fruit that corrupted them. To me it’s pretty plain ( doesn’t mean I’m the end all right answer on this ) but just reading what happened Noah recognized transgression or offense ehatever word one uses to call it he had done something that dishonored his father and that’s why his son was cursed
to me it’s just about us accepting what’s there so what I’m saying is if we were to just look at what’s here doesn’t it tell us that hams improper action is what brought Canaan’s curse ? Isn’t it just there for us to see
“And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”
Genesis 9:22-27
do you sort of see what I mean ham transgressed against Noah shem and Japheth both covered his nakedness whole ham spread the news d didn’t cover his nakedness but instead told his brothers “dads naked and passed out in the tent “.
I’m not saying he transgressed Moses law I’m saying he offended , did wrong , dishonored his father. And that’s why Noah pronounced the curse
but to me alot of what we dispute and disagree about is just right in front of us and should be settled by what’s there
to me it’s just about us accepting what’s there so what I’m saying is if we were to just look at what’s here doesn’t it tell us that hams improper action is what brought Canaan’s curse ? Isn’t it just there for us to see
“And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”
Genesis 9:22-27
do you sort of see what I mean ham transgressed against Noah shem and Japheth both covered his nakedness whole ham spread the news d didn’t cover his nakedness but instead told his brothers “dads naked and passed out in the tent “.
I’m not saying he transgressed Moses law I’m saying he offended , did wrong , dishonored his father. And that’s why Noah pronounced the curse
but to me alot of what we dispute and disagree about is just right in front of us and should be settled by what’s there
Here's more:
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Lev 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
K&D commentary on the OT
"The laws against incest are introduced in Lev_18:6 with the general prohibition, descriptive of the nature of this sin, “None of you shall approach to any flesh of his flesh, to uncover nakedness.” The difference between flesh, and flesh, is involved in obscurity, as both words are used in connection with edible flesh (see the Lexicons). “Flesh of his flesh” is a flesh that is of his own flesh, belongs to the same flesh as himself (Gen_2:24), and is applied to a blood-relation, blood-relationship being called (or flesh-kindred) in Hebrew (Lev_18:17). Sexual intercourse is called uncovering the nakedness of another (Eze_16:36; Eze_23:18). The prohibition relates to both married and unmarried intercourse, though the reference is chiefly to the former (see Lev_18:18; Lev_20:14, Lev_20:17, Lev_20:21). Intercourse is forbidden (1) with a mother, (2) with a step-mother, (3) with a sister or half-sister, (4) with a granddaughter, the daughter of either son or daughter, (5) with the daughter of a step-mother, (6) with an aunt, the sister of either father or mother, (7) with the wife of an uncle on the father's side, (8) with a daughter-in-law, (9) with a sister-in-law, or brother's wife, (10) with a woman and her daughter, or a woman and her granddaughter, and (11) with two sisters at the same time."
Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
What if someone else accidentally came across this crime happening and told other people? Is that a crime? No.
Obviously you don't understand scripture. You don't know the law.
You don't understand much except for flat reading.
Noah didn't say, " I am cursing Canaan".
He said "cursed is Canaan".
Similar to "Cursed is the Earth because of you" IE: Adam caused the Earth to become cursed. God didn't curse the Earth... Adam did by his actions. Same as Ham did to his own son.
You cannot go beyond what is written...which is what you keep doing over and over. Putting your thoughts into what was written instead of accepting exactly what was written.
You don't understand much except for flat reading.
Noah didn't say, " I am cursing Canaan".
He said "cursed is Canaan".
Similar to "Cursed is the Earth because of you" IE: Adam caused the Earth to become cursed. God didn't curse the Earth... Adam did by his actions. Same as Ham did to his own son.
You cannot go beyond what is written...which is what you keep doing over and over. Putting your thoughts into what was written instead of accepting exactly what was written.
yeah again what I see is your ignoring what actually happened and going to some bizarre interpretation based on some dissertation from someone I haven’t heard of what do you make of the scriptures that explain the situation though ? Have you read the account of the op subject at all ?
where do you come up with ham raping his mother ? And how does quoting incest laws from Leviticus lol have any relevance on what happened and was recorded d is still written 700 years beforehand ?
sorry but it strikes me as bizarre
where do you come up with ham raping his mother ? And how does quoting incest laws from Leviticus lol have any relevance on what happened and was recorded d is still written 700 years beforehand ?
sorry but it strikes me as bizarre
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And that wasn't a sin was it? It was eating of it that was against the command:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
If someone walks by and sees a rape happening, is that person guilty or is the rapist guilty?
.
Abel was a prophet. (Luke 11:50-51)
Enoch was a prophet. (1:14)
Noah was a preacher. (2Pet 2:5)
Abraham was a prophet. (Gen 20:7)
Those four holy men all lived prior to the covenant that Moses' people
agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy;
but I would hazard to guess that they were knowledgeable of many of the
laws in that covenant; especially Abraham because it's said of him:
"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my
statutes, and my laws." (Gen 26:5)
Now, the Bible says that people were breaking God's laws prior to the
covenant's institution.
• Rom 5:13 . . For until the law sin was in the world:
However; God didn't prosecute sinners by means of the covenant because it
isn't retroactive.
• Deut 5:1-4 . . The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord
did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us
alive here today.
• Rom 4:15 . . for where no law is, there is no transgression.
• Rom 5:13 . . sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Just to be clear: where I say "the law" I'm not talking about law as Abel,
Enoch, Noah, and Abraham knew law. I'm talking about codified law.
Take for example the rumor that Canaan slept with his grandmother. Well
according to the codified law, the penalty for that act is death (Lev
20:11).So then (if the rumor is true) why didn't Noah execute Canaan?
Because the codified law isn't retroactive.
That being the case: then today's Jews-- whose association with God is
based upon the codified law --have a safety net .
God made a promise to Abraham in regards to his seed several hundred
years prior to the codified law (Gen 12:3). According to Gal 3:17-18, that
promise trumps the codified law which means that Jews who break the
codified law can escape Deut 27:26's curse by simply taking advantage of
Abraham's bullet-proof promise. (For additional instructions pertaining to
this matter; consult the epistle to the Galatians)
_
Abel was a prophet. (Luke 11:50-51)
Enoch was a prophet. (1:14)
Noah was a preacher. (2Pet 2:5)
Abraham was a prophet. (Gen 20:7)
Those four holy men all lived prior to the covenant that Moses' people
agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy;
but I would hazard to guess that they were knowledgeable of many of the
laws in that covenant; especially Abraham because it's said of him:
"Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my
statutes, and my laws." (Gen 26:5)
Now, the Bible says that people were breaking God's laws prior to the
covenant's institution.
• Rom 5:13 . . For until the law sin was in the world:
However; God didn't prosecute sinners by means of the covenant because it
isn't retroactive.
• Deut 5:1-4 . . The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord
did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us
alive here today.
• Rom 4:15 . . for where no law is, there is no transgression.
• Rom 5:13 . . sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Just to be clear: where I say "the law" I'm not talking about law as Abel,
Enoch, Noah, and Abraham knew law. I'm talking about codified law.
Take for example the rumor that Canaan slept with his grandmother. Well
according to the codified law, the penalty for that act is death (Lev
20:11).So then (if the rumor is true) why didn't Noah execute Canaan?
Because the codified law isn't retroactive.
That being the case: then today's Jews-- whose association with God is
based upon the codified law --have a safety net .
God made a promise to Abraham in regards to his seed several hundred
years prior to the codified law (Gen 12:3). According to Gal 3:17-18, that
promise trumps the codified law which means that Jews who break the
codified law can escape Deut 27:26's curse by simply taking advantage of
Abraham's bullet-proof promise. (For additional instructions pertaining to
this matter; consult the epistle to the Galatians)
_
Like some have said, I believe Ham's sin was looking at his father's nakedness and mocking him, rather than covering him. Similar to lusting after a woman - to observe something is one thing, but to consciously continue looking or dwelling on something (i.e. to lust, or in Ham's case, to mock and degrade) is where the sin begins.
But I haven't gone beyond what was written...(you have)
And I even alluded to the point YOU brought up about generational curses and explained how they came about...
So now you are saying how wrong I am with my assessment but contradicting and disagreeing with yourself all at the same time...
The cognitive dissonance knows no bounds in your head eh?
And I even alluded to the point YOU brought up about generational curses and explained how they came about...
So now you are saying how wrong I am with my assessment but contradicting and disagreeing with yourself all at the same time...
The cognitive dissonance knows no bounds in your head eh?
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