One World Religion Headquarters Set to Open Next Year

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#21
Check this out. Martin Luther's Garden of Trees in Germany is memorial to represent all churches that have grown out of the Protestant Reformation. Guess what denomination is given the honor of #1. The first tree is designated as representing the Roman Catholic Church.

The establishment of the church was begun on the Day of Pentecost least anyone forget.

http://www.luthergarten.de/list.html
My point is the Roman Catholic Church IS NOT the first church! To think so is ludicrous. However, the Roman Catholic Church will play its part in the One World Religious system spoken of in Revelation. In Revelation 18:4 there is a profound statement: "...Come out of her..."
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,683
6,732
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#22
We can be thankful that the church of Rome does not have the authority to decide which baptisms are valid.
Yes, sounds very much like they are usurping the Lord's position.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#23
I do not believe the Roman Catholic church doctrine. It is just ironic that churches follow a tradition that was begun by them considering most know they don't even abide by God's word.

As far as the New Testament church's birth taking place on the Day of Pentecost it was Jesus who said that would happen in Luke 24:47. The NT rebirth experience of believer's could not take place until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.
Luke 24:47 says nothing about the birth of the church.
Jesus had instructed them what they were to do.
He was about to return to the Father, and they would be powerless.
They were to wait until the Holy Spirit was given before they were to go.
They would begin in Jerusalem and then go into all the world.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#24
The church or ecclesia is built on the God-given revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
The Father said, "This is My Son...listen to Him!"
As far as the blind leading the blind...there's a pit waiting for them.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#25
The church or ecclesia is built on the God-given revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
The Father said, "This is My Son...listen to Him!"
As far as the blind leading the blind...there's a pit waiting for them.
Actually Jesus church is build on Him.
He is the foundation, corner stone.
He is the builder.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#26
I didn't think it was possible to disagree and agree with me at the same time, but voila! You did it! Congratulations!
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#27
Luke 24:47 says nothing about the birth of the church.
Jesus had instructed them what they were to do.
He was about to return to the Father, and they would be powerless.
They were to wait until the Holy Spirit was given before they were to go.
They would begin in Jerusalem and then go into all the world.
The rebirth experience can not take place without repentance and remission of one's sin and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Actually Luke 24:47 states that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name beginning in Jerusalem. This occurred when Peter gave instructions in Acts 2:38 concerning what was required after people believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

Jesus goes on to mention in verse 49 that they need to wait for the Holy Ghost as well.

Luke 24:47-49
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#28
The church or ecclesia is built on the God-given revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
The Father said, "This is My Son...listen to Him!"
As far as the blind leading the blind...there's a pit waiting for them.
It was Jesus who said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16) And, it is only when a person is reborn that they can SEE (comprehend) the kingdom. He goes on to specify that a man cannot ENTER the kingdom of God UNLESS he is born of water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5)
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#29
It sounds more like Islam taking control of everything in a Muslim country. This is just a farce. What should be of greater concern is the recent Democratic bill in the US Congress against "Islamophobia", to protect Muslims and Islam from any kind of criticism, while Christianity, Christ, and Christians are freely attacked.
“Islamophobia”, like many words invented by fascists, are designed to groom populations and make them question their own thoughts and memory. The very fact the word Islamophobia had to be invented is telling.

There are good reasons to fear Islam, but it’s not an irrational fear. The end goal is to make people think that fearing Islam is something only a crazy person would do and no one wants to be crazy therefore people will love Islam.

The average person really is simple enough to be manipulated this way and it’s a core assumption of propagandists that populations are simple minded.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#30
The point being made, as I believe you well know, is that Protestant churches follow the Roman Catholic Church's tradition of water baptizing in titles and not the name of the Lord Jesus.
That is NOT a Roman Catholic tradition. The Didache was written in the 2nd century, long before the Church of Rome began to dominate the Europe and the Mediterranean region. And what we find n the Didache is exactly what Christ said in Matthew 28:19.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#31
That is NOT a Roman Catholic tradition. The Didache was written in the 2nd century, long before the Church of Rome began to dominate the Europe and the Mediterranean region. And what we find n the Didache is exactly what Christ said in Matthew 28:19.
It is a Catholic tradition begun in 325 A.D. Historical encyclopedias reference that fact.

Also consider that the Didache is not the inspired word of God; the bible is. And the bible clearly conveys that the apostles obeyed Jesus' command given in Matt. 28:19. This truth is evidenced by every single detailed water baptism record. God's truths are always confirmed by at least 2-3 scriptures.

Think about it, if the phrase was in fact supposed to be used there would be at least one other confirming scripture. And we both know that is not the case.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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#32
It was Jesus who said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16) And, it is only when a person is reborn that they can SEE (comprehend) the kingdom. He goes on to specify that a man cannot ENTER the kingdom of God UNLESS he is born of water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5)
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In regards to John 3-5, keep in mind that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet we also read in scripture where "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#33
Many members of Protestant Churches are oblivious to the fact that they are being told to obey a tradition rather than what is confirmed by all water baptism records in the word: (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Protestant Churches are considered part of the Catholic Church due to their performing water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; a tradition begun by the forerunners of the RCC.

Pope Francis to Christians: Our common Baptism unites us
Vatican City, Jan 25, 2018 / 10:51 am (CNA/EWTN News).- At an ecumenical Vespers service Thursday, Pope Francis told members of several Christian communities that the grace of Baptism creates a unity in the family of God.
Even when differences separate us, we can recognize that we have the same Baptism, and we belong “to the same family of brothers and sisters loved by the one Father,” the Pope said Jan. 25....

The following encyclopedia excerpts provide evidence concerning changes that were made to water baptism by the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church. (There are many other publications attesting to this truth)
THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, 1899 edition, further supports the “Jesus Name” baptism as the original form: From these passages, and from Paul’s words in I Corinthians 1:13 Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? ...

ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition. Under formula: “In the Name of Jesus Christ or of the Lord Jesus.
The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16...From these passages, and from Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1:13 (Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest (times “in the Name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”...

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOLUME 8
“Justin Martys was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church who helped change the ancient baptism of “in the Name of Jesus Christ” to the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost”...

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1967 edition, volume 2, pages 56, 59.
“An explicit reference to the Trinitarian formula of baptism cannot be found in the first centuries.”...
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,805
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#34
Very interesting, what are we to do?
Those walking the in the Holy Spirit have the evidence of being truly His.
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
602
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63
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#35
Many members of Protestant Churches are oblivious to the fact that they are being told to obey a tradition rather than what is confirmed by all water baptism records in the word: (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Protestant Churches are considered part of the Catholic Church due to their performing water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; a tradition begun by the forerunners of the RCC.

Pope Francis to Christians: Our common Baptism unites us
Vatican City, Jan 25, 2018 / 10:51 am (CNA/EWTN News).- At an ecumenical Vespers service Thursday, Pope Francis told members of several Christian communities that the grace of Baptism creates a unity in the family of God.
Even when differences separate us, we can recognize that we have the same Baptism, and we belong “to the same family of brothers and sisters loved by the one Father,” the Pope said Jan. 25....

The following encyclopedia excerpts provide evidence concerning changes that were made to water baptism by the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church. (There are many other publications attesting to this truth)
THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, 1899 edition, further supports the “Jesus Name” baptism as the original form: From these passages, and from Paul’s words in I Corinthians 1:13 Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? ...

ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition. Under formula: “In the Name of Jesus Christ or of the Lord Jesus.
The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16...From these passages, and from Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1:13 (Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest (times “in the Name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”...

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOLUME 8
“Justin Martys was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church who helped change the ancient baptism of “in the Name of Jesus Christ” to the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost”...

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1967 edition, volume 2, pages 56, 59.
“An explicit reference to the Trinitarian formula of baptism cannot be found in the first centuries.”...
I'm not sure what the purpose is in what you are saying because the way I see it, Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and therefore there is no real difference other than acknowledging God in all 3 of his forms.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#36
I'm not sure what the purpose is in what you are saying because the way I see it, Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and therefore there is no real difference other than acknowledging God in all 3 of his forms.
The biblical way of administering water baptism is in the name of Jesus. Jesus stated in Matthew 28:19 to baptize in the name of the... Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles. Take notice that the apostles water baptized in the name of Jesus in every detailed record in the bible. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Consider also that it is through the name of Jesus that everything is to be done. And all agree with this, with the exception of how to water baptize. Significant? Yes, especially when one considers that in water baptism a person is being buried with Jesus into His death. (Romans 6:4-6, Col. 2:12)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
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#37
Very interesting, what are we to do?
Those walking the in the Holy Spirit have the evidence of being truly His.
I had received the Holy Ghost and was later water baptized in the titles. Afterward I became aware that every water baptism after Jesus death, burial and resurrection was administered in the name of Jesus. I made the decision to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in order to be obedient to what the bible actually said. For me the change was dramatic. I began to comprehend more and more from God's Word.

Consider as well that Paul rebaptized the Ephesus disciples in Jesus' name. (Acts 19:1-6) Both Romans 6:4-6 and Col. 2:12 say that in baptism we are buried with Jesus. It makes sense then that everyone is required be obey Peter's command in Acts 2:38-40.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
602
267
63
Rural South Carolina
#39
I had received the Holy Ghost and was later water baptized in the titles. Afterward I became aware that every water baptism after Jesus death, burial and resurrection was administered in the name of Jesus. I made the decision to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in order to be obedient to what the bible actually said. For me the change was dramatic. I began to comprehend more and more from God's Word.

Consider as well that Paul rebaptized the Ephesus disciples in Jesus' name. (Acts 19:1-6) Both Romans 6:4-6 and Col. 2:12 say that in baptism we are buried with Jesus. It makes sense then that everyone is required be obey Peter's command in Acts 2:38-40.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
So you were baptized in the name of the lord Jesus. Them you have to do it again in the name of Yeshua.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#40
So you were baptized in the name of the lord Jesus. Them you have to do it again in the name of Yeshua.
Mock if you must. But it's all about obedience to the Word of God. The bible states water baptism is to be in the name of the Lord Jesus. I'm sure God is familiar with the name of Jesus in whatever language one uses.