Strange doctrines have crept in quietly

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#21
He died on the cross to the point when He rose again on the third day, important events happened. Psalm 88:6 says, “You have cast me into the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.” Jesus took on every bit of The Curse: spiritual death, sickness, disease, poverty and lack.
Copeland assumes Psalm 88:6 is talking about Hell. Jesus, from the cross, said: "It is finished." No suffering in Hell or torment from Satan.

For this is what my Father has commanded.’” –John 10:17-18 • “Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.
Again, nothing about suffering in Hell here.

So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat …
Okay, this might actually indicate He went to the underworld after He died; but it doesn't say anything about Hell; nor anything about Him suffering and being tormented by Satan as Copeland claims.

Student, I respect you as a person; however, if you think Kenneth Copeland is anything other than a con artist and false teacher, I have to say you're seriously deluded. I know you won't reconsider anything based on what I've said because you can't see the truth that's right in front of you. All you can see are your delusions. I can't remove delusions; only God can do that.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#23
Duckybill probably has a Poverty spirit that's preventing him/her from receiving the prosperity gospel! (
Just kidding)
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#24

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#25
Here's another great example of scripture twisting to make a verse mean what he, God's "anointed apostle," C. Peter Wagner, thinks it really means. The following is from Wagner's "Dominion! Kingdom Action Can Change the World" in the Journal of the American Society for Church Growth, Vol. 18, Issue 1. I found it easily online; there are also videos out there of Wagner teaching this same thing but unfortunately I can't find one right now.

"At one point, here is how Jesus described His own mission: 'For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost' (Lk. 19:10). Our traditional pastoral understanding of this statement has been that Jesus came to save 'those' who were lost, not 'that' which was lost. Of course, He did come to save individual souls as I have said, but this particular verse does not refer to individuals; it refers to the dominion over creation which Adam lost in the Garden of Eden."​

A little background for those unfamiliar with particular teaching. Notice the very last words: "this particular verse does not refer to individuals; it refers to the dominion over creation which Adam lost in the Garden of Eden." This is a scripture that has been hijacked to serve the purpose of Dominionism. That which was lost, according to Wagner, was our "dominion," and Jesus gave it back to us. But what does scripture say:

"For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet."—1 Corinthians 15:25

He has dominion, not us.

If you read the entire context of the verse, Luke 19:1-10, it's obvious the meaning is the salvation of individual souls; specifically Zacchaeus in this case. Not only that, the Greek doesn't support the translation "that which was lost." The following Greek text is from the Textus Receptus lest our KJV only friends think I'm up to some kind of trickery.

ἦλθεν (came) γὰρ (for) ὁ (the) υἱὸς (Son) τοῦ (?) ἀνθρώπου (of Man) ζητῆσαι (to seek) καὶ (and) σῶσαι (to save) τὸ (the) ἀπολωλός (lost).

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

The word τὸ is translated "that which" in the KJV and others. τὸ can mean a few things, none of which is "that which." In this particular context, "the" is absolutely the best translation.

Wagner has exploited a bad translation and further tortured this verse by putting it into the service of his false doctrine.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,721
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#26

You wish -----HERE YA GO -------you must think people are stupid -------all this GUY did was show different clips together ------Have a look Folks ------in the clip ---This Guy Moves the Video to another Video right after Copeland says ----Jesus went to Hell and he got in trouble for saying that ----

Then the other video cuts off at the place he wants it to be cut off ---------so all this guy did was SPLICE videos together and took some words that COPELAND said and is saying ---Copeland said this stupid stuff ----
This guy is a deceiver HIMSELF -----Give us the Whole Sermon ---not just 2 words of it -----

GO Back look at the first clip notice the people shown ---then notice the second clip and it is not the same people ---so he just took a word or 2 from different sermons and Spliced them together so he could use the words to suit his own agenda ------

I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO ______Give me a COMPLETE SERMON FROM COPELAND HIMSELF to show that he actually said this carp ------

I await for the proof -------there PennEd --
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#27
uh

why pay the wolves any attention. If they are in your church congregation, just leave cos by the time they get in, its becomes impossible to kick them out if they already on the church board/ordained. They are already IN your house.

The Bible says those with strange doctrines dont even let them in.

with the case of say a cult leader like Jim Jones, they eventually knew they couldnt carry on so without criminal investigation, so set up somewhere else in another country. Their followers went with them. When concerned family members tried to get them out, they risked getting killed as well.

I know that sounds harsh, but people believe what they want to believe. The moment they dont believe it, then you can save them, rescue them whatever, but you cant change someones mind when its permanently fixed and they have decided to be in that cult.

Just keep preaching the gospel truth. It doesnt do any good to say well this man is a liar when its obvious to anyone who knows the truth they are lying. It is the truth that is going to set people free, not so and so is evil. cos what are you going to do about it, those people can only be charged, arrested and put in jail when theyve done something heinous and by then its too late.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,318
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#28

You wish -----HERE YA GO -------you must think people are stupid -------all this GUY did was show different clips together ------Have a look Folks ------in the clip ---This Guy Moves the Video to another Video right after Copeland says ----Jesus went to Hell and he got in trouble for saying that ----

Then the other video cuts off at the place he wants it to be cut off ---------so all this guy did was SPLICE videos together and took some words that COPELAND said and is saying ---Copeland said this stupid stuff ----
This guy is a deceiver HIMSELF -----Give us the Whole Sermon ---not just 2 words of it -----

GO Back look at the first clip notice the people shown ---then notice the second clip and it is not the same people ---so he just took a word or 2 from different sermons and Spliced them together so he could use the words to suit his own agenda ------

I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO ______Give me a COMPLETE SERMON FROM COPELAND HIMSELF to show that he actually said this carp ------

I await for the proof -------there PennEd --
You don't have to have an entire sermon; if he teaches it he teaches it.

The following is from the Question of the Day section of Copeland's website, November 22, 2018. Here's the direct link: https://www.kcm.org/read/question-of-the-day?field_question_date_value=2018-11-22. But this isn't an archived page. You can still directly access it by the following path: Kenneth Copeland Ministries>Read>Question of the Day>then input the date.

Question: Did Jesus go to Hell?​
Answer: "After the crucifixion, Jesus’ body was placed in a tomb, and His Spirit went to hell. There Jesus suffered all the torments of hell that we would have suffered. [Note here, He suffered all the torments of Hell] Jesus’ submission to death was complete. He experienced it to the ultimate degree so mankind would never have to be punished (2 Corinthians 5:21). [This verse has nothing to do with what he's teaching here]​
What a surprise the enemy received! The enemy thought he’d won the victory when Jesus came to hell. What he failed to understand was that hell could not hold the righteous Son of God! Jesus, who embodied the sinless nature of His Father God, had committed no sin. So He was not deserving of punishment. Satan, death and hell could not hold Him (Acts 2:24). The Spirit of God resurrected Jesus from hell and the grave by the power of God."​

The following is from and article on Copeland's website. It's dated March 31, 2015, but it's still up there now. Just go to the sight and search for: "What Happened from the Cross?" (part 2)

"Jesus was the first Man to ever be born from sin to righteousness. He was the pattern of a new race of men to come. Glory to God!​
And you know what He did? The very first thing that this reborn Man did—see, you have to realize that He died. You have to realize that He went into the pit of hell as a mortal man made sin. But He didn’t stay there, thank God. He was reborn in the pit of hell and resurrected."​

What I find most fascinating is the fact you're demanding people furnish you proof that your idol is a false teacher. If your first priority was truth I'd think you'd be all over this to prove we're wrong. But again, I'm quite sure you won't be convinced. That's okay; my job isn't to convince but to speak the truth.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#29
With the advent of modern "prophets" and "apostles," all kinds of extra-Biblical teaching is finding its way into the mainstream.

These new "apostles" say: The old scriptures have lost their relevance; we can now proclaim new words from God that take priority over the old. But there's a problem. There are enough people around who know enough to reject this nonsense, so they have to act stealthily. To these unenlightened, ignorant holdovers they say: The Holy Spirit will never contradict the word of God. This sounds good but what do they really mean?

Us ignorant and uninformed Pharisees know the word of God has been delivered once and for all; it has a correct and an incorrect interpretation. I agree, the Holy Spirit will never do or say anything to contradict this.

But modern "apostles" and "prophets" are coming from an entirely different angle. If a "word" from the Spirit contradicts God's word the solution is simple, there must be a hidden meaning in the text. So they search and search looking for the "real" meaning, "always learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth." In this manner they change, add to, and take away from God's true word, making it conform to them rather than conforming themselves to it.

So whenever you hear someone say, "The Holy Spirit will never contradict God's word," measure carefully where they're coming from and what they actually mean.
I think that comes from the perception that the Bible is the complete and final word of God and that He has nothing to say anymore ever again. There isn’t a verse that says anything like that. Actually, our modern Bible is just a collection of letters and stories that were compiled and canonized later. The Bible wasn’t always a book.

When people say something that isn’t in the Bible, nowadays people quickly say “you’re adding to the word of God” but back in the days when the sermon material for the Bible was being spoke in church, new revelations were always considered and cross examined with scripture. This shouldn’t be any different in the present day.

I honestly believe in the spiritual gifts and know in my heart, and from experience, that the gift of prophecy is real and that God still has a lot to say. I think when we are overly critical of real prophets it actually creates a problem for the body of Christ. Those with spiritual gifts have those for the building up and edification of the body of Christ, but we can’t do that as effectively when everyone expects everyone to be a false prophet and there are no shortage of those.

I think we should focus more on identifying what a false prophet is and the kind of fruits they bare, rather than just sowing seeds of doubt in the office of prophecy.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,721
596
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#30
Here Ya Go ------an Explanation------- worth the read -------

Christ's "Descent" to Hell
There are a number of passages from which the teaching arises, but primarily, theologues will use verses from Matthew 12:38-41, Romans 10:7, and Ephesians 4:7-10 to demonstrate Christ's descent to hell. In Matthew 12:40, Jesus compares himself to Jonah proclaiming, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." And clearly, when Christ died, he gave up his spirit (John 19:30). But to where did his spirit go?

In the end, it comes down to understanding what Scripture means when it speaks of Christ descending into the lower parts of the earth (or the heart of the earth). His soul spent three days and three nights in that abode. Almost unanimously, this deep part of the earth is interpreted as signifying the netherworld (i.e., that place wherein the spirits of the dead make their abode) — hell didn't begin to take on its modern meaning conoting that particular location wherein the damned are punished eternally until quite recently. There are a number of directions Christians depart at this point — and that is what is the activity in which Christ was engaged these three days.

There are three notable perspectives:

  1. Christ spent his three days suffering the wrath of God.
  2. Christ spent his three days proclaiming his victory over the Satanic kingdom.
  3. Christ spent his three days preaching the Gospel to the Old Testament believers who dwelt in a separated portion of the netherworld.
The first position benefits from the comparison between Jonah and Christ. It is not difficult to see that just as Jonah spent his time in suffering in the deep (or the grave), so too might not have Christ suffered in the land of the dead? Peter claims in Acts 2:24 that Christ, by his resurrection, was loosed from the pangs of death, "because it was not possible for him to be held or conquered by them" — meaning that until he arose, Christ laboured under the throes of death. He suffered then, in this case, that we, his sheep, might be spared such.

The second perspective presents a more cheery picture — Christ descending into the depths of hell to proclaim his Gospel victory. Satan defeated. Death defeated. And the Lord of life victorious and boasting in triumph! A beautiful picture. Unfortunately, there seems little evidence from Scripture that this occurred during the three days and three nights, and it presumes that Satan and his fallen angels make their abode in "the heart of the earth" — something else not really stated in Scripture.

The third and final position that we will here look at arrives from a difficulty in interpreting 1 Peter 3:18-20. Christ, it is supposed, entered into the depths to proclaim the Gospel to Old Covenant believers. The biggest question burdening such an interpretation is one of motivation: why did Christ specially go to preach to those who already believed? All of the Old Testament saints had already received the Gospel by grace through faith. It was accounted them as righteousness. So then, why? While Christ may indeed have preached the Gospel so, it certainly doesn't seem necessary.

In the end, true saints believe along a number of different interpretive lines at this point. The Christian's solemn and joyous duty then is to allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves. But as this is not a matter of division, every Christian should allow his brother some breadth in his interpretation, always maintaining godly fellowship borne in love and charity.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#31
I think that comes from the perception that the Bible is the complete and final word of God and that He has nothing to say anymore ever again. There isn’t a verse that says anything like that. Actually, our modern Bible is just a collection of letters and stories that were compiled and canonized later. The Bible wasn’t always a book.

When people say something that isn’t in the Bible, nowadays people quickly say “you’re adding to the word of God” but back in the days when the sermon material for the Bible was being spoke in church, new revelations were always considered and cross examined with scripture. This shouldn’t be any different in the present day.

I honestly believe in the spiritual gifts and know in my heart, and from experience, that the gift of prophecy is real and that God still has a lot to say. I think when we are overly critical of real prophets it actually creates a problem for the body of Christ. Those with spiritual gifts have those for the building up and edification of the body of Christ, but we can’t do that as effectively when everyone expects everyone to be a false prophet and there are no shortage of those.

I think we should focus more on identifying what a false prophet is and the kind of fruits they bare, rather than just sowing seeds of doubt in the office of prophecy.
You're about as deluded as they come.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#32
I think that comes from the perception that the Bible is the complete and final word of God and that He has nothing to say anymore ever again. There isn’t a verse that says anything like that.
You have two things mixed up here: (a) does God continue to speak to people? and (b) is the Bible complete?

We know from the last book of the Bible that that is the final book and that the apostle John was the final prophet. Therefore nothing more can be added to Scripture, which means that the gift of prophecy can been terminated (as we know from 1 Cor 13:8 that it would be terminated, and Church history confirms it). Therefore -- by definition -- there can be no more genuine prophets. And ever since the first century, the only "prophets" have been false prophets, e.g. Joseph Smith.

Does God speak to us? Yes. Firstly through His written Word, and secondly through the indwelling Holy Spirit. He will also speak to people as the Gospel is preached (or Bible truth is revealed) by evangelists, pastors, and teachers. He may also speak to you through other Christians or your spouse. But anyone today who is claiming to be either an apostle o a prophet should be ignored.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,757
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#33
Just looking at Ken Copeland gives me the creeps ...Them eyes ugg , makes me feel earie...
 
Dec 29, 2021
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#34
I stopped watching TBN and Copeland when old man Crouch and Copeland were pushing the idea that we are [little gods].
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#35
You have two things mixed up here: (a) does God continue to speak to people? and (b) is the Bible complete?

We know from the last book of the Bible that that is the final book and that the apostle John was the final prophet. Therefore nothing more can be added to Scripture, which means that the gift of prophecy can been terminated (as we know from 1 Cor 13:8 that it would be terminated, and Church history confirms it). Therefore -- by definition -- there can be no more genuine prophets. And ever since the first century, the only "prophets" have been false prophets, e.g. Joseph Smith.

Does God speak to us? Yes. Firstly through His written Word, and secondly through the indwelling Holy Spirit. He will also speak to people as the Gospel is preached (or Bible truth is revealed) by evangelists, pastors, and teachers. He may also speak to you through other Christians or your spouse. But anyone today who is claiming to be either an apostle o a prophet should be ignored.
The Bible as we know it today, composed of 66 books and letters, was not what they had when John penned Revelation. The “book of this prophecy” that John refers to is the book of Revelation which is complete and not to be altered.

So I think your foundation for why you have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof is built of false information. The spiritual gifts are still in effect and as Bible believers we must accept the Bible never says they have ended.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#36
You're about as deluded as they come.
Wow I honestly didn’t expect you to attack my character over my well-written response to your well-written OP. I don’t have to comment in your threads anymore and maybe I won’t. Maybe rather than attack other people in a Bible discussion forum, you should welcome a diversity of opinions and perspectives because they enhance the discussion.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,318
3,619
113
#37
Wow I honestly didn’t expect you to attack my character over my well-written response to your well-written OP. I don’t have to comment in your threads anymore and maybe I won’t. Maybe rather than attack other people in a Bible discussion forum, you should welcome a diversity of opinions and perspectives because they enhance the discussion.
Diversity of opinion over things that aren't major is one thing. But the things you say you believe are heresy.

I'm not debater, I speak my mind. Post, don't post—that's up to you.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#38
Diversity of opinion over things that aren't major is one thing. But the things you say you believe are heresy.

I'm not debater, I speak my mind. Post, don't post—that's up to you.
Okay don’t debate, you’re free watch and learn in silence.

I assure you there’s no heresy. A group of men decided which books are contained in the Bible in the late 300s. They decided for you that the Bible is complete and no more additions can be made because “God said so.” which there isn’t a verse for.

In the early church, people practiced prophecy together and checked each other’s revelations. These people weren’t bonafide apostles, they were laymen imbued with the Holy Spirit and His gifts.

1 Cor. 14:29-33 KJV
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,586
9,104
113
#39
Here Ya Go ------an Explanation------- worth the read -------

Christ's "Descent" to Hell
There are a number of passages from which the teaching arises, but primarily, theologues will use verses from Matthew 12:38-41, Romans 10:7, and Ephesians 4:7-10 to demonstrate Christ's descent to hell. In Matthew 12:40, Jesus compares himself to Jonah proclaiming, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." And clearly, when Christ died, he gave up his spirit (John 19:30). But to where did his spirit go?

In the end, it comes down to understanding what Scripture means when it speaks of Christ descending into the lower parts of the earth (or the heart of the earth). His soul spent three days and three nights in that abode. Almost unanimously, this deep part of the earth is interpreted as signifying the netherworld (i.e., that place wherein the spirits of the dead make their abode) — hell didn't begin to take on its modern meaning conoting that particular location wherein the damned are punished eternally until quite recently. There are a number of directions Christians depart at this point — and that is what is the activity in which Christ was engaged these three days.

There are three notable perspectives:

  1. Christ spent his three days suffering the wrath of God.
  2. Christ spent his three days proclaiming his victory over the Satanic kingdom.
  3. Christ spent his three days preaching the Gospel to the Old Testament believers who dwelt in a separated portion of the netherworld.
The first position benefits from the comparison between Jonah and Christ. It is not difficult to see that just as Jonah spent his time in suffering in the deep (or the grave), so too might not have Christ suffered in the land of the dead? Peter claims in Acts 2:24 that Christ, by his resurrection, was loosed from the pangs of death, "because it was not possible for him to be held or conquered by them" — meaning that until he arose, Christ laboured under the throes of death. He suffered then, in this case, that we, his sheep, might be spared such.

The second perspective presents a more cheery picture — Christ descending into the depths of hell to proclaim his Gospel victory. Satan defeated. Death defeated. And the Lord of life victorious and boasting in triumph! A beautiful picture. Unfortunately, there seems little evidence from Scripture that this occurred during the three days and three nights, and it presumes that Satan and his fallen angels make their abode in "the heart of the earth" — something else not really stated in Scripture.

The third and final position that we will here look at arrives from a difficulty in interpreting 1 Peter 3:18-20. Christ, it is supposed, entered into the depths to proclaim the Gospel to Old Covenant believers. The biggest question burdening such an interpretation is one of motivation: why did Christ specially go to preach to those who already believed? All of the Old Testament saints had already received the Gospel by grace through faith. It was accounted them as righteousness. So then, why? While Christ may indeed have preached the Gospel so, it certainly doesn't seem necessary.

In the end, true saints believe along a number of different interpretive lines at this point. The Christian's solemn and joyous duty then is to allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves. But as this is not a matter of division, every Christian should allow his brother some breadth in his interpretation, always maintaining godly fellowship borne in love and charity.
You were given his own written word, on his own site, as well as video of him repeating the heresy, that you defied people to post, and you deflect with THIS!?

How about something along these lines:

“Wow! After seeing the proof I asked for, I’m sorry guys for calling you out and mocking you “.

How bout something like that?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#40
The spiritual gifts are still in effect and as Bible believers we must accept the Bible never says they have ended.
Well show us the true prophets of today, and exactly what they have revealed that is NOT in Scripture. And if it in Scripture, then it is not anything other that what evangelists, pastors, and teachers would present.