Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

Therefore, if the Rich Man and Lazarus is a literal passage, as you claim...

...and dead people can talk, Jesus lied. (Psalms 115:17 KJV, Psalms 88:11 KJV)
...and dead people know things, Jesus lied. (Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Job 14:21 KJV)
...and dead people can plan things, Jesus lied. (Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV)
...and dead people can see things, Jesus lied. (Psalms 88:12 KJV)
...and dead people can feel things, Jesus lied. (Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)
...and dead people can visit the land of the living, Jesus lied. (Job 7:10 KJV)
...and dead people can remember things, Jesus lied. (Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV; Psalms 88:12 KJV)
...and dead people are in heaven praising God, Jesus lied. (Psalms 115:17 KJV; Psalms 6:5 KJV)
...and dead people are conscious of earthly affairs, Jesus lied. (Psalms 13:3 KJV; Job 14:21 KJV)
...and dead people get resurrection bodies before the resurrection, Jesus lied. (John 6:40, 44, 54 KJV)

However, if the passage is a parable (which it is), He told the truth.
Which about Him do you think is true?

And by "spirit-soul", you make no distinction between the two. OK, let's see how that lines up with Scripture:

1) At His death, Jesus "soul" went down to the grave, but His "spirit" returned up to the Father.

2) Scripture says it can divide the "soul" from the "spirit" as surely as a blade can divide marrow from joints.

3) God's "spirit" traveled from heaven to Adam's body on Earth before Adam became a living soul, and only after the union of God's spirit and Adam's body occurred did Adam become a living soul.

4) Job asks, after the Spirit returns to God and the body to dust, "Where is he?" -- "he" meaning, "the Soul". Surely, Job should know "where he is" if the Soul continued to exist, but "where is he?" is proof positive that the Soul has CEASED to exist.


There are other examples in Scripture which make the Soul and the Spirit distinct one from the other, so after reading these verses, can we really continue expressing things like "soul-spirit" as if they are the same?

Surely, God can bring back into existence a person or thing that has ceased to exist, right? "Is anything too hard for the Lord", my friend?

Believe me, when a wicked man who went to his death in the electric chair cursing and swearing comes up in the Resurrection of the Damned still cursing and swearing, people will instantly recognize him as the scoundrel he was and is.

When a 10-megaton truth bomb is dropped, three things happen:

1) Ground Zero is blessed
2) The shock wave awakens the slumbering masses
3) collateral damage is limited to only the destruction of satanic deception

I may have missed it, but have you explained in detail the teaching behind the “parable” of Luke 16?

non sequiturs, every one.
some strawmen, and some you seem to have no idea what they are saying.

it has been repeatedly proven that there is more than one definition of 'dead' in scripture, none of these say anyone ceases to exist, and you misinterpret them all.

why do you want Jesus to be a liar?
why do you crave cessation of existence?

Sure there is. Moses was buried. And yet there he is on the mount of transfiguration with some kind of body that is not the body that will be when he his buried body is resurrected.

Stephen, lifts up his eyes and dying and says "Lord Jesus Receive my Spirit" and he then he "fell asleep" We believe that Jesus received his spirit at that time and his body is what fell asleep. "we" being the majority of New Testament Scholars.

I'd watch the video, friend. You can FF to 8:30 up to this point, it's just him explaining why it can only be a parable by pointing out the many Biblical contradictions which arise if we make the passage literal - backed up with lotsa Scripture.

8:30 is where he begins to show how the Bible itself interprets the parable, which is better than I could explain it. That guys a professional evangelist, while I'm a professional sinner trying to be saved by grace

Parables aren't lies...they're lessons.

Only those who believe the Serpent find more than one definition of "dead" in Scripture -

We who believe God alone understand "dead" means "the cessation of life", not a continuation thereof.

Jesus is the truth - John 14:6. As satan is a liar and speaks lies, Jesus being the truth, always speaks truth, whether naturally, spiritually, literally, allegorically, by parables, mathematically, scientifically, philosophically, metaphorically, intentionally, overtly, etc for he doeth all things well.

OK, let's examine the "Moses" issue you bring up. We're told there was a dispute between God and Satan over the body of Moses. What could that dispute have been about?

1) Could it be God wanted him to stay buried, but Satan wanted him dug up and cremated?
2) Could it be God wanted him to stay buried, but Satan wanted to donate his body for medical research?
3) Could it be they both wanted him stuffed and put on display in their living rooms?

OR COULD IT BE GOD WAS ABOUT TO RAISE MOSES FROM THE DEAD, AND SATAN WAS THERE CLAIMING HE WAS AS GUILTY OF SIN AS HE WAS AND WORTHY OF THE SAME FIERY FATE?

It's obvious the dispute was over whether God was fair to resurrect and allow rebellious Moses entrance into heaven after Satan had been banished for the exact same thing...and after simply rebuking him, the Lord -obviously - proceeded to raise Moses from the dead. It's the only way Moses could have appeared in the Mount of Transfiguration. How do we know?

Because Solomon says the dead have nothing to do anymore with anything done under the sun, and Job says a dead man shall return no more to his house. "All Scripture is given by inspiration....."

New Advent is a Roman Catholic website, set up in part by Kevin Knight. I use it frequently to refute Catholics. For instance, on the state of the dead, that site says:

"...is the doctrine of spirituality. ... Dualism ... Plato ... Platonic Dualism ... " [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S", "Soul"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Soul - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm

"... For positive evidence, however, that the soul will continue after death in the possession of a conscious life, we must appeal to teleology and the consideration of the character of the universe as a whole. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "I"; "Immortality"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Immortality -http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07687a.htm

You might have modern Jewish background (which is Talmudic Rabbinic Kabbalism - mostly, a few 'Torah only' types) but that doesn't mean you are in harmony with the OT, NT statements, who all disagree with an immortal soul/spirit position.

Are you referring to these?

2Tim 2:11: "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:"

Is the old man dead or still conscious and alive, immortal even?

Where is King David (the person, not asking about the body) right now?

Moses was resurrected by Jesus Jude 1:9. He has a glorified body, as does Enoch and Elijah and firstfruits, as Jesus does.

Luk 9:31: "Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem."

Phil 3:21: "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

Speculation on an interpretation of Jude.

The dispute about Moses Body was probably about the fact that God buried him. That's all we know. The rest is speculation. You are speculating that this suggests that Moses was resurrected before Jesus. I believe the interpretation is more likely that the dispute was about the supernatural nature of his burial.



Those that came out of their graves at his crucifixion is a difficult passage to interpret. One may speculate that Moses was among them but the text says many devout and holy men. Not many old testament saints as many have wrongfully quoted and then invented an interpretation to fit that idea. These devout and holy people could simply be people that had recently died that the people living would recognize and they may have been raised like Lazarus was, later to die again and are awaiting the final resurrection. That is an interpretation also and one I prefer over the speculation that Moses or other OT saints were raised at this time. But this would not be supportive of your Moses theory since your theory has Moses raised before Jesus and your explanation about how that works is more speculation.

David has not been resurrected yet. And this statement by Peter is a theological point. One that is not subject to change for Moses at your convenience.

Acts 2:29
“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.

here is the context

24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,


“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day

This theological context that David was not raised from the dead but that Jesus was, is a theological point that would apply to Moses as well.

I rest my case.

That would have Moses being raised before Jesus but Peter spoke about the importance of Jesus fulfilling these prophesies not Moses.

24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,


“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day

So Peter's theological point about how David did not rise from the grave but rather Jesus did, would apply to Moses as well. It was not David, it was not Moses, it was Jesus that this text applies to.

f we would learn something from this passage it is WHAT THE AUTHOR INTENDED and not be guilty of what these false teachers were doing, and the author was not trying to teach anything about whether Moses was resurrected or the state of the righteous dead, but just as you use passages from Eccl that were intended to explain the authors testimony of how he wanted to depart this live and escape the wrongs he witnessed under the sun, to teach something he did not intend, you are guilty of the same here when you use a text that was intended to teach not to get involved in blaspheming angels and use it to try and teach that Moses was raised from the dead. It seems that all your teachings hinge on verses that are misused.

Who else does that?

If anything this passage in Jude 9 should be used to tell people that they are really out of their lane when "praying to satan, with various demands, accusations, and name calling" Which we see all the time today and it never feels right. It is awkward, and you just feel like something is way off when you hear people do it.

8Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively.

If we were to use this passage to help them see that all that is not really necessary and that when they Pray to God, He can take care of the devil. Casting out the devil from a person is one thing but even then, name calling and trying to ridicule the devil is just ignorant. Not even Michael did that when disputing with satan about the body of Moses.

See, that is correctly applying the verse. Not some strange speculation about the resurrection of Moses and building a doctrine around it. That was not Jude's point at all.

I cited in connection to Jude 1:9, Luke 9:31. Moses "appeared in glory" with the living and glorified Elijah. Moses can only do that if he had been previously resurrected.

Now I will cite Romans 5:14 in connection to the previous two faithful witnesses.

Rom 5:14: "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

The reason death reigned from Adam to Moses, because until Moses, no one had yet been permanently resurrected. God broke that reign of death with the resurrection of Moses, which is why he is seen in glory on the Mt of transfiguration with the glorious Elijah.

Even the Jews were looking for Moses and Elijah to come down from heaven (John 1:21,25 "that prophet" (Moses); Matthew 27:49; Mark 15:36 "Elias").