Judas death…. It’s not when you think

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JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,614
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#21
The book of Matthew was written TO which group of people?

The gospel of Luke and Acts was written with what audience in mind?

The answer to the disparity is in that.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#22
How do you support the idea that Luke::

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

IS talking about the first visit? Not the second visit when Thomas was present..
Correct...First visit.

Trust me it can be very confusing bouncing back and forth between gospels....which is why I used a spread sheet for a visual.

Referencing ↓ the two dudes on the road to Emmaus

Luke 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luke 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luke 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,829
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#23
When he talks about Jesus showing himself to the twelve, it seems obvious that he's referring to Matthias who was already chosen to be, but not revealed as, the replacement for Judas.
“You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

and exactly what difference does it make, if Judas killed himself before or after Jesus' resurrection anyway?
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#24
The book of Matthew was written TO which group of people?

The gospel of Luke and Acts was written with what audience in mind?

The answer to the disparity is in that.
Disparity is not in who it's written to ...it comes from the people who have tried to harmonize the gospels rather than accepting what is written. They are also the ones who gave us the "who it's written to" rather than the biblical reference of why.

How does disparity answer
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
668
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#25
When he talks about Jesus showing himself to the twelve, it seems obvious that he's referring to Matthias who was already chosen to be, but not revealed as, the replacement for Judas.
“You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

and exactly what difference does it make, if Judas killed himself before or after Jesus' resurrection anyway?
As far as what Jesus accomplished ...I agree ...no difference.
As far as the accuracy of the God breathed Word, and why the Author (God) wanted it written...that is above my pay grade.

Matthias was not selected until after the ascension.... sometime the 10 days before the outpouring.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,874
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#26
Matthias was not selected until after the ascension.... sometime the 10 days before the outpouring.

Which means there were only 11 of them but one verse says "the twelve" so again, I think that was just a title for the group and being 11 they were still called "the twelve". Judas was definitely not alive in the timeframe of the two verses being discussed.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,874
1,254
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#27
Meeting Christ on a mountain:

Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Meeting at dinner indoors:

Mar_16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Meeting where Jesus eats:

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

Meeting when Thomas was present:

Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#28
If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God