Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

Here is a much better hermeneutic. The speaker (Jesus) has used similar language just recently and meant that an event would happen that day.

Luke 22:34 34And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

And so we have evidence that the speaker (Jesus) is known to communicate about what will happen that day and not that he is known to explain to the listener what day he is actually speaking. It was not normal for this speaker in the past to tell people "I am telling you this today. I am not telling you this last week. I am not telling you this tomorrow, I am telling you this today?

Think about it, your being crucified, you can hardly get a breath to breath and you want to tell someone that they are going to be in paradise and you are going to waste words telling them what day you are doing the talking? Not hardly. He is not wasting unnecessary words when he tells him that he will be with him in paradise THAT day.

43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
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The word paradise is a word that is used interchangeably in different contexts. In this context it is referring to a well known concept of the Jews that there was a place for the righteous dead as soon as they died and before the resurrection. That is what Jesus was promising him. And that is where he went. Whether you can figure out the time or the location is irrelevant. It is just more natural reasoning about spiritual things.

Only if you have a hell mindset. If hell is in hades, and they are thrown into hell then the place of hell is burnt in hell is Ouroboros, a pagan concept. It is not logical.

Sorry, is there a text that says Paradise is down, because I've shown you all the texts which plainly and without torturing any words point to it being up.

Yes. Remember the text about Abrahams Bosom? That is a feast they expected to have in paradise. Read about it any any New Testament Survey book where you learn about the customs and teachings that were popular among the Jews at the time of Christ.
Or you could Google it.
Jesus was telling this Jew something he was familiar with.

So here is something I just Googled.

Some believe that before the coming of Christ, paradise was a compartment in Hades, or the unseen realm of the dead. It was a region of bliss also known as Abraham's side, or bosom. This was a common belief among the Jews in Jesus' day. When the beggar Lazarus died, Jesus said he went to the same place as Abraham.


It is argued that these righteous dead went to paradise, not heaven. When Christ ascended into heaven He took paradise, and all the inhabitants, with Him. The verse used to support this view is found in Ephesians.

Bro, are we really going to allow "customs and teachings" to supersede a "thus saith the Lord"?

Paradise is UP, not DOWN

What is the koine Greek words used there that are translated into English, "forever and ever"?

How does the English bible referred to define "forever and ever"?

Second death is kinda final.
How many hells do you have? Read more - Rev 20:14

I guess Sodom and Gomorrah are still burning with "everlasting fire"? Think "result", not "process".

BTW, "forever" ("aionios") means "duration: undefined but NOT endless" - when the word is applied to the affairs of men, it means "all the days of life" like the slave who chose to remain his master's slave "forever". He's not gonna be a slave in the kingdom, right or wrong?

I don't know why it is people insist on believing in Eternal Torment when it can be shown to be unBiblical, except perhaps it has to do with "exclusivity religion" where members can feel special with special treatment as other are denied and excluded. Luciferians do it, Calvinists do it, too.

You're a Greek expert who can rewrite all of our Bibles? I don't think you're qualified.

You're a Greek expert who can rewrite all of our Bibles? I don't think you're qualified.

Ad hominem much?

I actually already gave the answer just a few posts back:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-really-good-news.203594/page-73#post-4778200

"You're a Greek expert who can rewrite all of our Bibles? I don't think you're qualified."

I didn't rewrite anything. I simply defined the words as scripture gives. Did you see the references?

Even modern English allows that forever and ever doesn't always mean eternity, but can simply mean an unspecified length of time, short or long subjectively.

Like when meeting a friend after a period of time, I can say, I haven't seen you in forever and ever!

Hell will be filled with unbelievers!
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

No, bro,
the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek was inspired and a single line of that contained punctuation. That was added by the translators according to as they, not the Holy Spirit, saw fit, and since most of them had been taught RCC brand theology, it's a miracle that more punctuation errors hadn't occurred.

I guess Sodom and Gomorrah are still burning with "everlasting fire"? Think "result", not "process".

BTW, "forever" ("aionios") means "duration: undefined but NOT endless" - when the word is applied to the affairs of men, it means "all the days of life" like the slave who chose to remain his master's slave "forever". He's not gonna be a slave in the kingdom, right or wrong?

I don't know why it is people insist on believing in Eternal Torment when it can be shown to be unBiblical, except perhaps it has to do with "exclusivity religion" where members can feel special with special treatment as other are denied and excluded. Luciferians do it, Calvinists do it, too.

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Both are true. It can be the fact that all the souls that are in hell are raised bodily, judged and cast into the Lake of Fire and therefore HELL is cast into the Lake of Fire as a result, or it could also be that on top of this the PLACE called hell that was a holding place for these wicked dead souls is also done away with in some fashion cast into the Lake of Fire.

This is a Biblical view and I am getting it by reading the bible so I don't really care what pagans thought.

I don't have any hells. God has one that lasts "forever and ever". Jesus said so.

That is not a thus saith the Lord. It is your reasoning. I find it faulty.

I think that one must take into consideration the mindset of the people who were hearing Jesus teach. Knowing that they had the belief that there was a place called paradise for the righteous dead and it was also called Abrahams bosom is important in hermeneutics.

It is called CULTURAL CONTEXT and must be one of the rules used to ascertain the objective "what did the author/speaker intend to say in its original CONTEXT" and "what did the hearers/original readers understand when he said it?"

Cultural Context is huge in hermeneutics. When Jesus mentions paradise to a Jew who had been taught about a place called paradise for the righteous dead that was separated from the Sheol of the wicked dead he knew what Jesus meant. You want to make Jesus mean something else that the Thief had never been taught, but without Jesus explaining something new, then we can assume that Jesus was referring to that same place.