The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

Ok Quote me denying a glorified body at the resurrection.

You said it my friend. Bingo.

FreeGrace2 said:
So what? What does it matter that Jesus told MM that He will ascend "on fristfruit"?
Can you show me any post of mine where I said "only ever"? Of course you can't. So why are you again making up stuff?

By two advents, most sensible and rational people easily understand that refers to Jesus first coming to earth as a baby, to become the Suffering Servant, and then He comes back as King of kings and Lord of lords. This isn't "men's labels" at all. You seem to love to make up stuff.

Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Does the Bible refer to that as a "coming" of Jesus? No. But he came.

So, when speaking of the Advents of Jesus, we are speaking of the PROPHESIED coming to earth of Jesus.

So, how many times does PROPHECY mention Jesus coming to earth?

There’re only the saints - and the ain’ts. You should’ve seen that in all seven letters in Rev. 2-3, the bad churches as organizations or institutions are criticized, but at the end of every letter He addresses the individual SAINTS - “he who has an ear, let him hear!”

Also, in 2 Thess 2:2-3, it says that as soon as the Lawless One is revealed, most will “fall away”, that sounds kind of like the opposite of being “lifted up”, no?

Only when referring to what 1 Thess 4 is about, and that is only about believers; saved people.

Let's be clear here. When speaking of the resurrection of the saved, it IS about glorification. But never referring to the unsaved.

WOW. Where to start?

First, the word "each" does NOT MEAN "of more than two". That's just a totally made up piece of nonsense.

Since you rarely if ever quote entire verses, let's do that now:

"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

There are only 2 categories in this verse; certainly NOT "more than 2" as you presume.

The first is Jesus Christ. And his resurrection is called firstfruits because He IS the FIRST to receive a glorified body.
The second is "those who belong to Him". This clearly refers to every believer in history. Everyone who is saved belongs to Him.

So, "each in turn" refers to Jesus Christ and His resurrection, and "those who belong to Him" and their resurrection.

We know there is only 1 resurrection of the saved, because this verse tells us clearly that "those who belong to Him" will occur "WHEN HE COMES".

Now, who is going to screw this up and misunderstand it?

So, WHEN Jesus comes back, ALL believers will receive their glorified bodies.

So you think the 2W will receive glorified bodies EVEN THOUGH I have shown from Scripture (1 Cor 15:23) that "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected "when He comes".

Will Jesus be coming when the 2W are raised from the dead? No, of course not.

The Bible tells us WHEN this FIRST resurrection occurs, which is "when He comes". Rev 20:5 calls the resurrection of trib martyrs the first resurrrection.

So this is irrefutable. All believers will be resurrected to receive their glorified bodies, "when He comes". The 2W will be raised to life, just like Lazarus and the widow's son in the gospels, but since that WASN'T WHEN Jesus came, they DID NOT receive glorified bodies.

Ever notice good books are not written With huge fonts (small fonts) of different colours underlines [ brackets] all over the [place] makes reading for some way more difficult

FreeGrace2 said:
How many scholars have this view? I've never read of any.
OK, got it. You cite ONLY 1, yet claim you are "certain" he isn't the only one. Just much presumption.

You don't understand that He ascended on the very day of the Feast of First Fruits? As the fulfillment of that prophetic "moed"? No Bible scholar worth his salt would make such an omission as that.....

Interesting....hmmm have you ever studied the feast and offerings?

How so .....and not every believer is filled according to scripture. And the Holy Spirit cannot be commanded to dwell with in.

Bear in mind of the 7 letters to 7 Churches were real historical Churches of that era. Sardis and Laodocea had ridiculously profound "falling away" problems. And that was 2000 years ago.

Framed in that reality this "end time falling away" business holds no water. In fact the apostasy created by Constantine was probably the greatest of all time. Forced conversions of unbelievers were the norm not the exception.

I noticed that they have their own song and that there are twenty four of them . They appear to be ELDERS which sit in a place of privilege casting their golden crowns before the God and singing their own unique song. Whereas in the next chapter I see a great multitude which also are singing their own unique song. So ? I think the great multitude would be the redeemed not the 24 elders.

I have never spoken to you until this post. I was talking to someone else, obviously because I quoted who I was speaking to.

Yeah, so have most failed rapture prognosticators. Levitt, Camping and the whole HeeHaw gang.

Confusion is /always/ confusing and& might as well type it (ON a KEYboard)<------- out in a confusing (way]-- to double down [TWO 2x}} on confusion (see post 191[!]...

Fair enough. I couldnt tell what was a quote and what is a response in your posts, thats why I asked . Thanx

This is the first time you have read those two chapters? Their identities are both self-described, and observed and are absolutely unique. They utter the exact same statement as the Apostle John does in Revelation 1:6. Are you still confused?

Can a man believe without being drawn ?

Quite a load of bafflegab you've got going on there buddy. Hardly put a dent in the pretrib rapture though. Nothing and nobody I've come across has yet. Inevitably they prove they do not understand the Bible.

I am confused that you do not acknowledge and use the Word of God to correct you. You seem to be rude . I am not confused. However hard it may be . So you are saying that the 24 elders are part of the company in the next chapter. Are they singing a different song at a different time or is it a chorus. Yeah , going down these rabbit trails is a bit confusing when the rather than trying to fit the timing of the rapture from the Book of Revelation you could use plain statements of scripture . Such as The Last Day when the dead in Christ rise, which is the the same day the living believers are translated . Namely 1 Thessalonians 4,16 . God is not the author of confusion . Seems pretty clear , to me at least.