Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

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Feb 7, 2022
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If you do not believe it was Samuel the prophet brought up but an evil spirit, explain how this evil spirit spoke truth on behalf of the Lord and foretold the future as the Lord said?

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
Secondly, you believe Saul went to be "with" Samuel? Really? How do you figure? Saul, committed suicide, dying bereft of the Holy Spirit, and whose head was severed from his body, and later burned to the bones, and finally buried. Samuel was buried in Ramah, Saul wasn't, but was buried in Benjamin, in Zelah in the sepulchre of Kish. Samuel died saved and Saul died lost. Samuel obeyed God and was sealed by the Holy Spirit, Saul disobeyed God (several times) and grieved away the Holy Spirit.

Devils tell partial truth, and part lies.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Secondly, you believe Saul went to be "with" Samuel? Really? How do you figure? Saul, committed suicide, dying bereft of the Holy Spirit, and whose head was severed from his body, and later burned to the bones, and finally buried. Samuel was buried in Ramah, Saul wasn't, but was buried in Benjamin, in Zelah in the sepulchre of Kish. Samuel died saved and Saul died lost. Samuel obeyed God and was sealed by the Holy Spirit, Saul disobeyed God (several times) and grieved away the Holy Spirit.

Devils tell partial truth, and part lies.
Never said that but nice try. Did Saul go down to the heart of the earth? Yes, hell, across the gulf from where Samuel was.
 
Feb 7, 2022
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Never said that but nice try.
The scripture says "with":

1Sam 28:19: "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

The familiar spirit lied.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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For both veiws if you are saved.. you are with Jesus very quickly after death.

If death is a sleep... time is nothing and you are raised when Jesus returns 1 or 1000 or 6000 years after you die. Your Unconscious in death.

If your spirit continues to live (you don't completely die) after death, then you are with Jesus straight away and you are aware of time and events after you half died..

Point being ... make sure your saved, surrended to Jesus, and life after death is certain.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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The scripture says "with":

1Sam 28:19: "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

The familiar spirit lied.
The familiar spirit was the witch, not Samuel. The familiar spirit was not brought up, it was already with the witch. That's what made her a witch.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The scripture says "with":

1Sam 28:19: "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

The familiar spirit lied.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
 
Jul 24, 2021
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I don't know how to repent for believing what Jesus said. Please quote my "blasphemy".

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:22 is in the context of legal matters.

Consider Matt 5
21Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Parallel with Luke 12
57Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? 58When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

This is akin to bearing false witness of the nineth commandment.
What ducky bill has said OP "Does scripture tell us the law of the Lord is dead?"
Post #39 "Christians have NEVER been under the Law of Moses!"
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So what are you contradicting? Jesus maybe? Using a verse to slander, places you among those described in 2 Tim 3:3 "unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, without love of good," I think that too is a sin. Your caps, a christian without self-control in a chat room.

Speaking against the Scriptures is basically blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus says to avoid slander or you will be destroyed, and then you use the same verse to slander and infer an eternal torture chamber called hell.
Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

We will begin with this, till next post.:)
 

TheLearner

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Exists forever is not the same as lives forever
illogical because the sprit,soul still exists. Scripture is progressive. A good example is OT speaks of future Messiah. NT reveals the messiah. Christian religion did not exist in the OT. Only shaddows of it.
 

TheLearner

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Resurrection is not what takes place with the events surrounding the witch and her "familiar spirit" (devil).
1 Samuel 28:3-25
King James Version
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.

5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17 And the Lord hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day.

19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.

21 And the woman came unto Saul, and saw that he was sore troubled, and said unto him, Behold, thine handmaid hath obeyed thy voice, and I have put my life in my hand, and have hearkened unto thy words which thou spakest unto me.

22 Now therefore, I pray thee, hearken thou also unto the voice of thine handmaid, and let me set a morsel of bread before thee; and eat, that thou mayest have strength, when thou goest on thy way.

23 But he refused, and said, I will not eat. But his servants, together with the woman, compelled him; and he hearkened unto their voice. So he arose from the earth, and sat upon the bed.

24 And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof:

25 And she brought it before Saul, and before his servants; and they did eat. Then they rose up, and went away that night.

It is clear that Samuel was speaking and told Saul the truth of his situation. It was the spirt, soul of Samuel she saw. Since, there is no indication he was reunited with his body, it was not a resurrection.
 

TheLearner

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Strawman. Jesus in Luke 16 spoke a parable, using symbols, to describe true things in a conditional scenario. The problem is you make the words to be natural, when they are speaking of things spiritual. You are in the same condition as those Jews which misunderstand spiritual things for natural things. Serveral examples may be provided to you.
And, yet Jesus never explained the story to his disciples, nor did Luke say it is was a parable.
 

TheLearner

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What? I didn't say any part of the parable is false. I said the opposite, that the parable as given in Luke 16 is truth, just given in symbols, things spiritual, not natural.
looks like jesus used natural language to me. Since the book of Revelation is symbolic language in many places, does that mean it is a lie? or spiritual and therefore a parable?
 

posthuman

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It was not Samuel, but a "familiar spirit"
The scripture God wrote calls him Samuel.
You disagree.
Guess who is trustworthy between you or God?

You don't have a case on this topic; you only have unbelief, because the truth does not fit your preconceived doctrines on this topic.
 

TheLearner

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Secondly, you believe Saul went to be "with" Samuel? Really? How do you figure? Saul, committed suicide, dying bereft of the Holy Spirit, and whose head was severed from his body, and later burned to the bones, and finally buried. Samuel was buried in Ramah, Saul wasn't, but was buried in Benjamin, in Zelah in the sepulchre of Kish. Samuel died saved and Saul died lost. Samuel obeyed God and was sealed by the Holy Spirit, Saul disobeyed God (several times) and grieved away the Holy Spirit.

Devils tell partial truth, and part lies.
https://www.seeyouinheaven.life/did-king-saul-go-to-heaven/
https://faithalone.org/blog/is-king-saul-a-great-example-of-eternal-security/
https://biblelineministries.org/king-saul-his-salvation/

1 Samuel 28:18-20
Easy-to-Read Version
18 The Lord was angry with the Amalekites and told you to destroy them. But you did not obey him. That’s why the Lord is doing this to you today. 19 The Lord will let the Philistines defeat you and the army of Israel today. Tomorrow, you and your sons will be here with me.”

20 Saul quickly fell to the ground and lay stretched out there. Saul was afraid because of what Samuel said. Saul was also very weak because he had not eaten any food all that day and night.

Who is speaking in verse 19? It is either God or Samuel. The Judgement that Samuel gave is that of a prophet, not a demon. Show where a demon passed such a Judgement on anyone in scripture.