Genesis 1:1&2

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The heavens: What does it mean in the Hebrew. We need to know what it means before we can understand it.

[Strong's #8064 1) heaven, heavens, sky 1a) visible heavens, sky 1a1) as abode of the stars 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)] Copied from Biblehub.com.

And the earth. It is very important that we understand what God means by the earth as we move on in this study. Strong's Hebrew 776 [ 1) land, earth 1a) earth 1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part) 1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven) 1a3) earth (inhabitants) 1b) land 1b1) country, territory 1b2) district, region 1b3) tribal territory 1b4) piece of ground 1b5) land of Canaan, Israel 1b6) inhabitants of land 1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world 1b8) city (-state) 1c) ground, surface of the earth 1c1) ground 1c2) soil 1d) (in phrases) 1d1) people of the land 1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance) 1d3) level or plain country 1d4) land of the living 1d5) end(s) of the earth 1e) (almost wholly late in usage) 1e1) lands, countries 1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan] Copied from Biblehub.com. Here we are talking about the whole planet “earth”. Use a little common sense and you will understand it.

When was the beginning? Billions of years ago. I can hear some of you already saying “Your crazy the earth is only 6,000 years old.” I promise you we will cover that. Lets look at history. Right here in the United States where I live you have the Ground Canyon about 10 million years old, The Petrified Forest in Arizona , La Brea tar pits in downtown Los Angles, Ash Falls State Park Nebraska, and the Smithsonian dinosaurs they range in age from 10,000 years to 3.8 billion. You can look any of these up.

Dose God say anything about this? In Job 40:15-19 Verse 17. He moveth his tail like a cedar: His tail is as big as a cedar tree. Verse 18: His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. We don't have anything like that on earth today. Lets back up to Job 38:7 Remember God starts this out in verse 4 with Where wast thou when : So picking it up in verse 7 with that phrase Where wast thou when the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy? Satan was the Cherubim that covered the ark(I know there were 2) God made him the full package. Satan would had to have been included in all the sons of God that sang for joy. So there had to be a heaven and the earth in the beginning.

Lets to go in the new testament 2nd Peter 3 Tells us of the 3 earth ages. The age that was, the age that is; we are living in that age know and the new heavens and a new earth. Remember the meaning of that word earth.



Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

was
הָיְתָ֥ה (hā·yə·ṯāh)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 1961: 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) ----- 1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a1b) to come about, come to pass 1a2) to come into being, become 1a2a) to arise, appear, come 1a2b) to become 1a2b1) to become 1a2b2) to become like 1a2b3) to be instituted, be established 1a3) to be 1a3a) to exist, be in existence 1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time) 1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality) 1a3d) to accompany, be with 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about 1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone. Copied from Biblehub.com.

And the earth became void is the way it should have been translated.
Many of you may be saying or thanking right about know this happened at Noah's flood. Let me assure you that it did not happen at Noah's flood. Lets go to Jeremiah 4.

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

23I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. This is again copied from Biblehub.com

Verse 22. For My people are foolish and sottish. The translators were being nice. What God was saying is my people are silly and foolish in their understanding.

Verse 23 God does not make anything empty and void. His word can not go out and come back empty or void. It accomplishes its purpose. I beheld the earth and Lo it was it became without form and void; uninhabitable good for nothing. And they had no light. That means God was not there for where God is there is light.

Verse 24 This is what caused the earths axes to shift so that magnetic north and true north are 10-15 degrees off from one another

Verse 25 I looked and there was no man. That can't be Noah's flood there were men and woman on the ark. And all the birds of heaven (the skis) were gone; Again not Noah's flood; BUT it could have been that way in the first earth age before Satan's rebellion.

Verse 26. I beheld and the fruitful place was a wilderness. Again can't be Noah's flood. Remember the dove returned with the twig of a fig tree.

As we look at all these things we should begin to see and understand that God created the heavens and the earth in verse 1 of Genesis and something happened to cause the earth to become void and without form. Remember how we ended verse 1 in 2nd Peter 3 with God telling him about the 3 earth ages. The one that was; Genesis 1:1 through what ever period of time followed the creation of that heaven and earth age. Then we have this the second earth age and when it is distorted we will have the 3rd earth age. The eternity where we shall live with God forever.

God bless everyone Thewatchman

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God has given us a plan account of creation, We should not try and be God in understanding how but by faith believe the plan thus saieth the Lord. .

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I basically agree with you ….with the exception of the age of the earth……. This is what I had found in my research.


Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



While hayah has been translated was in most English versions including the LXX. In the original Hebrew ….there was no verb “to be” (which is translated was) However there is a verb “to become”, which is how this should be translated. The second was in this verse was added by translators as there was/is no corresponding word in that place.


2 Peter 3:5-7 (&13) is clear that we are in the second world…..the first world perished ….which does not refer to Noah’s flood, because Noah, his family and all the animals lived and he probably would not have a flood named after him….it would have been the end.

*2Peter 3:5-7 &13

5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word, are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.





When it comes to the earth being billions or millions of years old …I don’t buy it ….Do I know for sure, No! …..does anybody know for sure…. No they do not. Petrification can take place within a couple hundred years….that’s been proven.

Radiocarbon, K-Ar dating, Uranium-Lead, Magnetostratigraphy….It doesn’t matter, they have all been proven to be false and inaccurate….but you will not hear about it… The funding to prove these things ….evolution in particular…. are all based upon an old earth philosophy. The results are horribly skewed but again, you will not hear about it unless you do some research.

Personally I tend to believe anywhere from 10 to 20 thousand ….. I could be way off ….but it really doesn’t matter to me. Because…..…quite simply put ….God said in the beginning and that is good enough for me.

I do however believe there was some type of life between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 based on scripture in the Bible….and maybe that is where cave peeps fit into that Paleolithic period. A life that was mobilized by something different than we are…I don’t mean that in a weird way.

No need to cover that. The Bible confirms -- in the Ten Commandments -- that the earth is a little over 6,000 years old. So when you begin with false premises, you will arrive at false conclusions.

How do you explain that the earth became void and without form? God dose not create anything void, in a mess, without purpose ect.

If you read 2nd Peter you will find that He speaks of 3 different ages. The one that was, the one that is, and the one to come. How do you explain all the history, What about the behemoth in Job. I will ask you the same question God asked Job. Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like Him? Just trying to win friends and influence people.

The bible confirms this earth age is 6,000 years give or take a few, but God also said there was a age before this on and there will be a 3rd after this one.

To me it is important that you know there was an earth age before this one and it was perfect till Satan wanted to take it over, and that caused it to be destroyed. God did not want to wipe out all of his children so He set up this earth age that we must all be born of woman and choose to or not to follow Him.

The only age before this one was eternity past, and the only only age after this one will be eternity future. There were no creatures before Genesis 1. Only God (the triune Godhead).

You are trying to conflate two passages which appear to be about the same thing and are not. God did not start with a "mess". But just like a sculptor begins with a shapeless mass, God began with a shapeless mass.

WITHOUT FORM = SHAPELESS
VOID = DEVOID OF ANY KIND OF LIFE

So when God initially created the earth it was a shapeless mass covered with water, which ultimately became a perfect globe, with one single land mass, and one single body of water. Since God anticipated the formation of the continents, He called the water "seas" (plural) instead of "sea". It is possible that at the time of the Flood (or shortly thereafter) the continents were formed. If one were to make a jigsaw puzzle the continents would all fit into each other.

I believe there was, but it doesn’t need that much time.

Biblically we know there was around 7 thousand years…beyond that no one really knows.

My assumption, guess, speculation, is that between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 there was a period of time.... the Paleolithic period and a time when Dino and Barney were on the earth. It could have been just prior to Genesis 1:2 two or a couple thousand years …But if you want to put dinosaurs and cave peeps in a time frame they would fit in there.

Something cataclysmic did take place between 1:1 &1:2, but I cannot make that jump, because now we get into biblical scripture, and it does not specifically state that it was Lucifer ….it indicates…. but does not say specifically.

Assuming that there were dinos and cave peeps in that time….. they were not mobilized the same way we are with the same type of soul life that gives us life.

Create = bara in Hebrew - The word created is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing. Only God can create; man can fabricate, build, construct, design, make, assemble, etc.… but man cannot create. Once God creates something He does not need to create it again, because it now exists…. He can just speak it into being.

God did not create anything again until the 5th day when He created soul life in “great whales and every living creature (chay nephesh) that moveth”…

The word living is the Hebrew word “chay” meaning life or living. And the word translated creature is the Hebrew word “nephesh” meaning soul………….God tells us in Leviticus what/where the soul is.

Lev 17:11a -For the life of the flesh is in the blood…

The word life in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh)

Going back to basic Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…

Therefore Genesis 2:7 where God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul…. Makes perfect sense as a figure of speech Anthropopatheia (or Condescension) the ascribing of human attributes, etc., to God.

What happens when we die? The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul.


The truth that blood is what mobilizes (gives life) to humans and animals and this soul life was created by God in Genesis 1:21, tells us that it did not exist before. Whereas, light, earth, water, grass, fruit trees …etc. everything that God spoke into existence following Genesis 1:3 had already existed in the first heavens and earth and did not need to be created again.

hey @Oblio do you ever feel weirdly influenced to be someone's friend?

speaking as someone who spent 5 or 6 years throwing pottery in college...

when you are throwing a pot, you begin with an appropriately-sized handful of clay, and smack it against a flat surface repeatedly to work out the air bubbles ((so it doesn't wind up exploding in the kiln))

that isn't exactly shapeless.
depending on your technique it is either roughly spherical or roughly a rectangular solid. a cube if you will.

just intuition, but i think God goes for the spherical clayball.
to be fair i guess you could say the handful you initially grab is kinda formless?
but it's shaped like the hollow of your hand, as soon as you grab it
hmmm



anyway i agree with @Thewatchman on that point. God is a God of substance and of definite form; a God of ubiquitous order.
so it's really striking to me to read the earth being void and formless. that seems very incongruous, and very suspiciously as though we are supposed to intuit something from it, if we have knowledge of Him

i could be wrong of course brother @Nehemiah6
it would not be the first time your conversation changed my mind about something, even if i didn't remember to actually post anything to let you know.
much love

aye

for one reason because "years" can only be measured by the rotation of the earth about the sun -- and we don't get that until Yom 4 in Genesis 1

now i know a day by the relative motion of the earth and sun.
i have no idea what a 'day' is for Genesis 1 yoms/days 1-3

plus there are indications both scritural & observational that the lengths of days, weeks, months and years have changed.
the Levitical calendar in the Torah is 360 day year, 12 30-day months. a 30-day lunar cycle, a 360 day solar cycle.
we do not see that, now.

probably the cursing of the ground in Genesis 3 for Adam's sake, is when the difference began, IMO

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It does not state when the heavens and earth were created or if they were created at the same time. It could have been the same time but…. It doesn’t say …..so we don’t know.
But what it does say is that both the heavens and the earth were created. Additionally, the Hebrew particle ‘eth before both “the heavens” and “the earth” emphasize the article “the”, which distinguishes them both from the proceeding event of verse 2.


In Genesis 1:1, When God created the Heavens and the Earth He created it not in vain.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

I have no idea either ...that is Way above↑ my pay grade...I think that question is directed for the Author.

Jeremiah 4 just means that there is a judgment coming that will destroy the earth to be without form and void. (Hebrew, Tohu wa-bohu ) which means what the english translation says but in a more poetic rhyming phrase, like "want and waste" or something like.

Jeremiah was fully aware of making a powerful statement Tohu wa-bohu equivalent to total destruction so that it goes back to what it was at the beginning. This does not mean that what it was before the forming of the land etc was a result of a previous judgment. It is simply another prophesy that supports that God will destroy the current earth completely. Just like Peter says when he says the very elements will dissolve. The end result will be that condition of Tohu wa-bohu (without form and void)

The message of Jeremiah is that of the future judgment not a past judgment. Lets not teach reincarnation of planet earth. As though it goes through judgments and starts over again many times.

The previous world did perish. But it perished in the flood. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

In that sense we could say that it was previously judged but Peter says nothing about a world that was judged prior to the flood and that should rule out any possible theory of another judgment that Peter did not know about. This statement by Peter should be enough to shut down all speculation that there was a world wide judgment before the flood.

And certainly it seems rather obvious that if it were without form and void, (i.e. no rocks) then talking about age of rocks belonging to a world without form and void makes no sense at all. The age of rocks has to be discussed after the "without form and void state" ends and rocks are formed after that. Nothing to do with an existance before the without form and void state. There is no such thing as without form and void and rocks at the same time.

The gaseous substance we see in the universe is probably more what the earth was like when it was "without form and void" don't you think? It will be that way again. But it will be the first time that has happened since the creation. And then He will create a New Heavens and Earth.

God did not start with a mess!!! He made that first earth age perfect and it was until Satan wanted to go from protecting the Mercy Seat to setting in the Mercy seat. God did not have to scu

Peter told us in his letter 2nd Peter; 1 day with the Lord is as a thousand years with man. So days 1-6 6,000 years.