Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost?

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K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#1
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
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#1
  1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
  6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
56,200
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#2
KelbyofGod said:
Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
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To be reconciled to God and escape the second death? Absolutely yes.
KelbyofGod said:
Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
Click to expand...
God will sort it all out.
KelbyofGod said:
Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
Click to expand...
God will sort it all out.
KelbyofGod said:
Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
Click to expand...
No. But they may yet have time. Now is the day of salvation :)
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#3
#3
"1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “ Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” “No,” they answered, “ we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked. “The baptism of John,” they replied.…" - Acts 19:2
" because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#4
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#4
Oblio said:
"1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “ Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” “No,” they answered, “ we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked. “The baptism of John,” they replied.…" - Acts 19:2
" because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9
Click to expand...
In the example of Acts 19, at exactly what point do they receive the Holy Ghost? And is that consistent with your idea of when a person should receive the Holy Ghost? In other words, does it say they receive the Holy Ghost at confession (of something)?

I propose that people wrongly assume that the Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit is some automatic thing that has no evidence of arrival... and then make further wrong assumptions based on that "no evidence of arrival" doctrine. For example the false doctrine of "You can't tell if someone does or doesn't have the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit".

I call it a false doctrine because in the Acts 19 account (as well as others) it tells us both WHEN they receive it, AND the evidence provided by the arrival of the Holy Ghost / Spirit.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
walknlight

walknlight

Member
#5
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
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#5
Hello!
KelbyofGod said:
  1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
  6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
---------
Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.


God Bless!
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#6
#6
One night, long ago, I was at a band practice for the church's worship team. After we'd finished practicing, we gathered around the grand piano as the worship leader led us in a song. I stood singing to God, with my eyes closed and hands raised.
All of a sudden, it felt like a barrel of water was dumped on me. I started to react startled, but right away a thought said, "Relax, it's Me!" Instantly, I knew it was the Lord.
We finished the song and I opened my eyes. Sitting across from me was the worship leader, and though she was looking directly at me, I could tell she didn't see me. She was looking somewhere else and had a dreamy look on her face. "It's been so long," she said.
We finished up and all went home. When this happened, I'd been a believer for 17 years. That was the first time that I'd experienced something like that. Perhaps that was when I was baptized in the Spirit, though I didn't speak in tongues.
That didn't happen for another ten years.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#7
Jun 11, 2018
3,234
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#7
  1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Of course.
  2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit? No .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:12-13, 14, 15-16; Romans 8:9
  3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Yes .. e.g. Matthew 7:21-23, 13:24-30, 36-43; 1 John 2:19
  4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit? No, they are deceived as they continue their walk on the broad road to perdition.
  5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not? Yes, both for our sake and for the sake of others .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5
  6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church? For the most part, by looking for the things that always "accompany salvation" .. e.g. Hebrews 6:9; Ephesians 2:10; Galatians 5:19-23.
~Deut
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#8
Sep 2, 2020
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#8
Oblio said:
"1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interior and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “ Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” “No,” they answered, “ we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked. “The baptism of John,” they replied.…" - Acts 19:2
" because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9
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amen we can’t receive what we have never heard of

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the one who spoke Tony’s and taught us about the Holy Ghost in the gospel, it’s why we’re supposed to share his word with other people

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is the only reason anyone knows about the Holy Spirit Jesus told us about it

the group paul spoke with there hadn’t heard the word about the Holy Ghost so they couldn’t have received it by faith, After they heard they later received him

so few are willing to believe and share what Jesus already taught . It seems more so people create thier own ideas and share those so many haven’t heard the gospel which promises the Holy Spirit as a gift through the hearing of faith

[/QUOTE]
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#9
Mar 18, 2021
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#9
KelbyofGod said:
  1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
  6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
1. If you are born again, you have the Holy Spirit
2. No
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. Yes.
6. Often, not always.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#10
#10
When I was 14, in 1973, a guy read John 3:16 to me. I had a vision of a hand thrusting a sword into my belly. Though I wasn't looking for God, and had never been aware of the gospel, I instantly believed. I said the sinner's prayer.
I confessed with my mouth that Jesus was Lord, and I believed in my heart that God had raised Him from the dead. According to Romans 10:9, I was saved. I think the Holy Spirit sealed me at that moment.
It was 17 years before I believe that I was baptized in the Spirit, and it was another ten years after that before a tongue of fire flew into my chest and I spoke in tongues. The latter happened while I was at a 5-day Christian retreat.
I was, for the most part, unchurched and early on I received some bad teaching that if I was truly saved, then I would be sinless. I knew I wasn't, so I thought I was going to hell. I ran from God for a long time because of this. Though I was saved.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#11
Sep 2, 2020
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#11
Oblio said:
When I was 14, in 1973, a guy read John 3:16 to me. I had a vision of a hand thrusting a sword into my belly. Though I wasn't looking for God, and had never been aware of the gospel, I instantly believed. I said the sinner's prayer.
I confessed with my mouth that Jesus was Lord, and I believed in my heart that God had raised Him from the dead. According to Romans 10:9, I was saved. I think the Holy Spirit sealed me at that moment.
It was 17 years before I believe that I was baptized in the Spirit, and it was another ten years after that before a tongue of fire flew into my chest and I spoke in tongues. The latter happened while I was at a 5-day Christian retreat.
I was, for the most part, unchurched and early on I received some bad teaching that if I was truly saved, then I would be sinless. I knew I wasn't, so I thought I was going to hell. I ran from God for a long time because of this. Though I was saved.
Click to expand...
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sounds alot Like John 3:16
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#12
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
717
113
#12
Oblio said:
One night, long ago, I was at a band practice for the church's worship team. After we'd finished practicing, we gathered around the grand piano as the worship leader led us in a song. I stood singing to God, with my eyes closed and hands raised.
All of a sudden, it felt like a barrel of water was dumped on me. I started to react startled, but right away a thought said, "Relax, it's Me!" Instantly, I knew it was the Lord.
We finished the song and I opened my eyes. Sitting across from me was the worship leader, and though she was looking directly at me, I could tell she didn't see me. She was looking somewhere else and had a dreamy look on her face. "It's been so long," she said.
We finished up and all went home. When this happened, I'd been a believer for 17 years. That was the first time that I'd experienced something like that. Perhaps that was when I was baptized in the Spirit, though I didn't speak in tongues.
That didn't happen for another ten years.
Click to expand...
If you want to know for sure what some experience is, use that speaking in tongues (praying in the spirit) that you've been given. The spirit searches all things and always prays according to the will of God. You're understanding doesn't have that ability.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#13
#13
Thanks for your concern.
 
eXric

eXric

Active member
#16
Mar 31, 2022
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#16
KelbyofGod said:
  1. Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  2. Should a person call him or herself a Christian if they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  3. Are there are people out there who call themselves Christians even though they don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  4. Do you think they are safe if they think they are a Christian but really don't have the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
  5. Is it important to be able distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit and one that does not?
  6. Are you currently able to distinguish between a "Christian" that has the Holy Ghost/Spirit one that does not....within your own church?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
1. I think this very important, but also believe that Christians can be saved with out the born again part. I see it as two separate events that can happen at same time.

2.If they are saved thru faith, and did not have the Holy Spirit indwelt. They can call themselves Christian because they proclaim Christ as Lord and savior.

3.yes

4. If this question "are they safe", meaning "saved" then yes. If they think the are saved, meaning Christian, that would not be saved. Takes for then just thinking to be saved.

5. No not important. If God wanted them to get baptized in the Holy Spirit he would lead someone to help with that

6.Yes
being picky :
I am using Christian to mean saved. Lots of people can say they are Christian and not be saved. I meet someone that thought they were saved because they went to a church. I have heard of people just say that the Holy Spirit is automatic when you are saved. This can possible be true, but from what I have seen it is more likely not the case. There is a huge difference between saved and having the indwelt Holy Spirt. Not to be confused with the the Holy Spirit touching them. I know lots of deferent Denominations view this I different ways, so my not be correct by there teaching. the way i see it is God is leading people to Him. This process my take a lot of time, if someone is not wanting it. The encounter, when the person hears the word (logos).
They pray and believe (faith) that they are saved. Now they are saved and they have the joy more then likely get baptized. Maybe right then the Holy Spirit descend as a dove and become spirit filled born again new creation in Christ. Sometimes God people pray for them to help receive the indwelt Holy Spirit, right then they might speak in a different language of man or angel. Sometimes they need some guidance to do that. Having the indwelt Holy Spirit they my get gifts like in 1 cor 12. This may not be the end, maybe they keep growing and gain more gift and lead to start a ministry or something. Maybe they come to the understand being a son or daughter of God. Maybe encounter Jesus as a brother. Maybe taken by God. All sorts of good things.
That usually start when the believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit being born again with the indwelt Holy Spirit. Let me know what your thoughts are that differ then mine if you want.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#18
Oct 8, 2017
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#18
eXric said:
1. I think this very important, but also believe that Christians can be saved with out the born again part. I see it as two separate events that can happen at same time.

2.If they are saved thru faith, and did not have the Holy Spirit indwelt. They can call themselves Christian because they proclaim Christ as Lord and savior.

3.yes

4. If this question "are they safe", meaning "saved" then yes. If they think the are saved, meaning Christian, that would not be saved. Takes for then just thinking to be saved.

5. No not important. If God wanted them to get baptized in the Holy Spirit he would lead someone to help with that

6.Yes
being picky :
I am using Christian to mean saved. Lots of people can say they are Christian and not be saved. I meet someone that thought they were saved because they went to a church. I have heard of people just say that the Holy Spirit is automatic when you are saved. This can possible be true, but from what I have seen it is more likely not the case. There is a huge difference between saved and having the indwelt Holy Spirt. Not to be confused with the the Holy Spirit touching them. I know lots of deferent Denominations view this I different ways, so my not be correct by there teaching. the way i see it is God is leading people to Him. This process my take a lot of time, if someone is not wanting it. The encounter, when the person hears the word (logos).
They pray and believe (faith) that they are saved. Now they are saved and they have the joy more then likely get baptized. Maybe right then the Holy Spirit descend as a dove and become spirit filled born again new creation in Christ. Sometimes God people pray for them to help receive the indwelt Holy Spirit, right then they might speak in a different language of man or angel. Sometimes they need some guidance to do that. Having the indwelt Holy Spirit they my get gifts like in 1 cor 12. This may not be the end, maybe they keep growing and gain more gift and lead to start a ministry or something. Maybe they come to the understand being a son or daughter of God. Maybe encounter Jesus as a brother. Maybe taken by God. All sorts of good things.
That usually start when the believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit being born again with the indwelt Holy Spirit. Let me know what your thoughts are that differ then mine if you want.
Click to expand...
I'll wait awhile before answering regarding differences because i consider myself VERY picky when it comes to what constitutes a Christian, and I don't want to dissuade you from speaking your mind freely. Although I am willing to answer clearly if you specifically ask for that.

Meanwhile, I appreciate your response and clarity. Also, welcome to the BDF. And I will be praying for you that you are able to keep a soft heart toward God, as sometimes the BDF can be "difficult" if you visit too frequently.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#19
Jul 18, 2017
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#19
KelbyofGod said:
Do you believe a person needs the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
Click to expand...
There's no need to complicate what God has made simple. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). And the evidence will be that they "walk" in the Spirit and also be filled with the Spirit. Christ Himself is our example.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#20
Mar 18, 2021
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#20
eXric said:
1. I think this very important, but also believe that Christians can be saved with out the born again part. I see it as two separate events that can happen at same time.

2.If they are saved thru faith, and did not have the Holy Spirit indwelt. They can call themselves Christian because they proclaim Christ as Lord and savior.

3.yes

4. If this question "are they safe", meaning "saved" then yes. If they think the are saved, meaning Christian, that would not be saved. Takes for then just thinking to be saved.

5. No not important. If God wanted them to get baptized in the Holy Spirit he would lead someone to help with that

6.Yes
being picky :
I am using Christian to mean saved. Lots of people can say they are Christian and not be saved. I meet someone that thought they were saved because they went to a church. I have heard of people just say that the Holy Spirit is automatic when you are saved. This can possible be true, but from what I have seen it is more likely not the case. There is a huge difference between saved and having the indwelt Holy Spirt. Not to be confused with the the Holy Spirit touching them. I know lots of deferent Denominations view this I different ways, so my not be correct by there teaching. the way i see it is God is leading people to Him. This process my take a lot of time, if someone is not wanting it. The encounter, when the person hears the word (logos).
They pray and believe (faith) that they are saved. Now they are saved and they have the joy more then likely get baptized. Maybe right then the Holy Spirit descend as a dove and become spirit filled born again new creation in Christ. Sometimes God people pray for them to help receive the indwelt Holy Spirit, right then they might speak in a different language of man or angel. Sometimes they need some guidance to do that. Having the indwelt Holy Spirit they my get gifts like in 1 cor 12. This may not be the end, maybe they keep growing and gain more gift and lead to start a ministry or something. Maybe they come to the understand being a son or daughter of God. Maybe encounter Jesus as a brother. Maybe taken by God. All sorts of good things.
That usually start when the believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit being born again with the indwelt Holy Spirit. Let me know what your thoughts are that differ then mine if you want.
Click to expand...
The purpose of God's salvation is to bring about the Kingdom of God. It's a tragedy that so little gospel preaching includes this. Even to see the Kingdom of God, we must be born again. It may be possible for an individual to trust Jesus for forgiveness of sins alone. I would not preach or teach this.

I've created a post to clarify the difference between the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are not the same thing. it is possible to have the indwelling Holy Spirit yet not walk in the Spirit. It's a choice each Christian must make for themselves
 
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