Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

That's unnecessary to place any emphasis; I can read fine print quite well, glory to God.

Proof isn't the same thing as evidence, by the way. The narrative you're projecting would be circumstantial evidence.

Proof would be establishing something as a fact or truth and it would require Jesus to either plainly state it as such or tangible documentation of Lazarus' alleged disability; you produced neither.

Even people who can walk can be laid down at a gate, it doesn't explain why. Jesus didn't plainly say Lazarus was handicapped so there is no proof here which is partly why this parable is so debated.

What is soul sleep?

No one knows any of the specifics. You are merely judging based on appearances. Since Jesus WAS describing real people, and most probably both died relatively recently, the people Jesus was talking to would have known who He was talking about. Lazarus could have been crippled, etc. You just don't know the details. So don't speculate and judge him for sinful behavior without even knowing any of the facts.

Jesus described him as a poor man. Good grief, your highly judgmental evaluation is unjustified. Again, you have no idea.

What?? He made it to Paradise, the place where ALL saved OT people went. He was SAVED.

Read it again. The rich man was in a place of torment for his UNBELIEF.

Read it again. This REAL story is a warning about NO SECOND CHANCES.

Please STOP being so judgmental when you don't even have any facts about either man.

This is really confused and contorted. Rich people can go either to heaven or hell, based on whether they believed in the Messiah or not.

Your highly and unjustified judgments make no sense.

The rich man realized WHY he was where he was and wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to his 5 brothers to warn them HOW TO AVOID the place of torments. iow, the rich man wanted Lazarus to evangelize his living brothers so they wouldn't end up there.

So very easy to understand.

No, he was READING the Scripture. You are the one with your wildly UNjustified judgment on both men, when you have NO knowledge of facts in the matter.

You are just judging by appearances.

John 7:24 - Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” Jesus admonishing Pharisees.

You are doing the same thing.

2 Cor 10:7 -
your obedience is complete.
You are judging by appearances. If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do.

Paul is also telling you to knock it off.

Couldn't disagree with you more. You seem to be applying a subjective standard of what constitutes acceptable Biblical interpretation to what I said when you just admitted that no one knows all the facts. I sense you don't afford the same grace to those who disagree with you as those who agree with you. Why are you speculating, but when I speculate I'm the one being judgmental? Should we just stop discussing the Bible now?

FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, Jesus didn't give a parable about Lazarus and a rich man. He gave us a glimpse of life after death. There are no second chances. Everyone is accountable for their decisions.

We know it is not a parable because Jesus mentioned proper names, including Abraham and the discussion between Abraham and the rich man. No way that is a parable.

Jesus' account also proves that there is no such thing as soul sleep.
It is the heresy that at physical death, the soul stays in the dead body and sleeps, until the resurrection, at which it awakens. It is a foundational doctrine of the SDA.

I think we're discussing what the Bible says and doesn't say. No need to tell people they are being judgmental or they need to knock it off.

From all I can see there is a person begging at the Rich Man's gates. Doesn't mention a handicap, doesn't mention he offered any services, doesn't say much either way. So why are you the one saying I have a problem when you're doing just as much speculation as me?

So if you want to start flinging accusations at people, they have a way of returning back on you and your assessment of me makes you a hypocrite. No offense, but I hope that opens your eyes a bit. God bless.

Doesn't matter. you are judging by mere appearances. The Bible tells you to knock it off. Don't judge unless you have facts.

It doesn't take facts to recognize a literal story. Since there is NO mention of being a parable, when ALL the other parables are so described, there is NO reason to presume it is a parable. And, NO parable mentions real people. But you just ignore THOSE FACTS.

"same grace"? You mean congratulate you on your opinions? What do you mean? I disagree with your judgmental evaluation and explained WHY. You have no facts. I've given you some facts that you just dismiss.

I haven't speculated. So show me what you consider speculation.

Do you really mean we should just stop correcting the errors of others?

Didn't you read the 2 verses I shared with you about judging by mere appearances? That's what you have done.

And that's it. NO explanation of WHY he was, but you go off on a tangent about being lazy, slothful, etc, and sinning all the while.

So don't speculate. All we know is that he was poor. That shows he had no means to pay his own way.

Ooh, getting a bit touchy, are we. Look, you are the one who went off half cocked with a string of sins of Lazarus, all of which were mere speculation.

I hope Scripture will open your eyes about your habit of juding by mere appearances.

If no one knows all the facts about this parable then any further analysis beyond the plain text is called inference and interpretation which is just our speculation. Often, that is how Bible discussions go so it's unnecessary to apply your judgements to others when you're doing the exact same thing.

FACT #1 - it is not described as a parable, as all parables are.
FACT #2 - NO parable mentions REAL people. This story mentions Abraham, a real person, plus Lazarus a real person.

I explained the point of Jesus' story. Why are you ignoring it? It is about NO second chances, obviously.

Everyone needs to know that.

There are some who think "no sweat, I'll get a second chance after I die." No, they won't. And that is what Jesus taught through a story about 2 real people.

Ezekiel 33:12 gives us a glimpse into the character and sentiments of the Merciful God. He's nothing like dirty harry.

Say to them: ‘As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

So, if you put a dog down for going rabid, would you rather it be a quick and "painless" death or would you rather torture him and just take him to the edge of death so you could watch him die slowly, forever even, if it was within your power?

Thanks I just posted something along those lines

You’re an eternal tormenter but the Bible clearly teaches the death and destruction of the soul. Your premise is wrong. We’ll just disagree on this.

Where can I find verses in the bible about that or what word should I look up in the concordance to find verses.

I understand what you are saying about the dog but we are talking about the bible I am trying to learn so please show me from the bible what chapter and what verse so I can read it. I don't want to sound like a little kid saying prove it, but I do want to truly understand it. I can tell you the sky is purple all day long; does that make it purple.

And, of course, the wicked and righteous both die physically and that's not changing anytime soon. What God is pleading with the House of Israel about is the death of their souls; He doesn't want their souls to die, but they will die if they don't turn from their ways.

Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die...

When Scripture speaks about the death of the soul, it is referring to the second death of burning in the lake of fire. See:

Revelation 20:10-14: "The Great White Throne Judgment
10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

Hell may be terrifying, but that is only reason to (1) be so grateful to Our Lord Jesus Christ for His Gift of Salvation, and (2) to work as hard as possible to save our Non-Christian friends from going there. It is not reason to deny hellfire, since the Holy Bible clearly teaches it.

It’s called the second death because they lose their life like they do in their first death. That’s consistent with the established Biblical definition of death.

Yes it says three persons will be tormented “forever and ever” but that isn’t literal. That’s called apocalyptic language it’s and used for dramatic effect. Since it specific about three persons being tormented forever, it isn’t reasonable to expand that more broadly to the general population of sinners. The devil, beast, and false prophet are particularly exceptional antagonists and receive a greater punishment.

Now, forever and ever doesn’t always mean forever and ever where it can be proven that soul death is real. Applying consistent interpretation is how we avoid contradictions in scripture. Some may just call this good hermeneutics.

Edom is not bribing forever and ever:

Isaiah 34:10
10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Sodom and Gomorrah are not in eternal fire:

Jude 1:7
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Souls are destroyed, or perish, or put to death. These terms are often used interchangeably and in conjunction with one another:

James 4:12
12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


Hebrews 10:39
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Philippians 3:18-19
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Psalm 92:7
7When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:

Psalm 37:20
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Psalm 1:6
6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

2 Peter 3:7
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Ezekiel 18:20
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

And many more from Genesis to Revelation.

FreeGrace2 said:
FACT #1 - it is not described as a parable, as all parables are.
FACT #2 - NO parable mentions REAL people. This story mentions Abraham, a real person, plus Lazarus a real person.

I explained the point of Jesus' story. Why are you ignoring it? It is about NO second chances, obviously.

Everyone needs to know that.

There are some who think "no sweat, I'll get a second chance after I die." No, they won't. And that is what Jesus taught through a story about 2 real people.
I wonder why so many people make these discussions so personal. it's not my plan for eternity, but God's plan. I just believe it.

Nonsense.

Your's is. Rev 20 is quite clear. The beast and FP, who are human beings, will be tormented "day and night forever and ever".

You are free to mangle that verse as much and as frequently as you want, but the meaning is very clear.

And since the beast and FP were cast into the lake of fire, so will ALL unbelievers, per Rev 20:11-15. And they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever.

Are you aware of what Jesus said about certain people? The citizens of Sodom & Gomorrha will have it more tolerable than some of the citizens of Jesus' day. So we know that for those who will be cast into the lake of fire, it will be MORE tolerable than others, or LESS tolerable than others, depending upon the judgment of their works: 20:11-14.