Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

Amen. Isn't water baptism often linked to the Holy Spirit though?

John 1:32-34
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Acts 2:41
41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

...and so many more.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hebrews 13:15,16
15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 16But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup
I will drink, or be baptized with the baptism I will undergo?” “We can,” the
brothers answered. “You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and
you will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo."

I do not believe the baptism Jesus was alluding to water baptism.

Look at this, please:

John the Baptist was with two of his disciples when he saw Jesus walking nearby.
John said, “Look, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!” The two
disciples who were with John and heard John the Baptist say this then followed Jesus.

Andrew, as one of those two disciples of John the Baptist, had surely already been
water baptized. He was the first to follow Jesus, with an un-named other, probably Phillip.

So why would Jesus tell them they would undergo the same baptism? Since they had already
been water baptized. Scripture further affirms this: The whole Judean countryside and all the
people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Holy means set apart.


Ephesians 4:5-6

It is mentioned as inside Him.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth.

The Spirit in Jesus was speaking when HE was only twelve years old = Luke 2:41-50

His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. 42And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. 43When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And [l]Joseph and His mother did not know it; 44but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. 45So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. 46Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.
47And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.
48So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”

And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”
But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.

yea I agree baptism is essential in my view , but I don’t think someone not actually getting baptized in water for some reason between the And the lord which they will have to give account for themselves at judgement , has anything to do with my view.

for discussion I agree with you , for someone else’s salvation it’s between them and Jesus, and baptism is one thing a good and righteous thing , hearing and believing the gospel comes before that and makes our mind and heart new so we can see the point of getting baptized

I don’t think Jesus is in a box where if someone believed In him lived a decent life imperfect but decent like most of us and yet they didn’t get baptized he’s going to disown thoer belief in Jesus Christ is all I’m saying .

It’s the belief that offers and leads us to salvation the baptism is just something depending on what we believe it is for

anyone who truly believes “ baptism is an act of faith done for remission of sins, because I indeed believe Jesus died for my sins , I want to get baptized into Jesus name that’s my act of faith placing me and my sins in the body of Christ “


If we believe this is true we’ll get baptized by faith , if we don’t believe it and say instead “ baptism is a ritual it isn’t important it’s just for show it’s not for me I’m already forgiven I don’t need to do anything I believe Jesus died so baptism i therefore reject , I have faith
Instead.”

Then we’re never going to actually take the time to repent and confess deal with God for a short time on the sins we know we’ve done and get baptized for remission in his name , by his body dying for all My sins even one I might commit next week , because Jesus died if I confess and repent when I become aware of a wrong I’ve done , his death still covers me ,

if I follow Jesus he’s always going to be with me , if I accept his gospel and believe I’ll always have the promise he makes if I receive Jesus spirit from heaven ect. He’s always with me always willing to forgive and lift up , always willing and the only one able to forgive my sins because he’s the one who died for them.

he just tells us to get baptized in his name it’s basically the first move of a disciple of Jesus is the thing , they all
Believed first but some don’t believe it’s necessary so if we don’t believe it why would we do it ?

it’s only value is an act of faith, if we don’t believe it isn’t going to have any effect on our mind and heart. The entire gospel is that way we first believe and then we do it’s a book of faith

Baptism is Gods promise to remit your sins because Jesus died for them , being fulfilled by the one who hears believes and obeys

it’s the hearer and believer of the promise , they are those who express faith

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s the last part where you see faith happen. They heard what Peter was saying about Jesus listened to his sermon and when he was done , they believed what he had said so faith operated and they all were glad to partake of baptism into the name of thier Lord and redeemer now revealed upon earth , from heaven the name of Jesus

it made them glad because it was about thier sins being taken by Christ the lamb of God who also rose from the dead showing himself divine and perfect In Nature , without sin and victorious over the world and even over death in the name of all men he overcame and in his name we can overcome

who wouldn’t want to take Jesus name upon themselves and become his disciple ? Who wouldn’t want to accept the son of God and his name upon themself ? Who wouldnt want to identify as a child of Abraham and hier ofnhis promises? Who wouldn’t want to join Christ in death and receive remission of sins by faith ?

it’s all in the belief we have , this tends to change belief and bring faith which brings action

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬


If we accept what scripture explains baptism is for , any believer would rush to get baptized.

lol naw I’m basically challenging your attitude if I’m challenging anything at all

I’ve already said I agree that baptism is essential basic doctrine …....several times.

to that I have added that what you understand about baptism won’t affect if someone else is saved or not thier faith in Christ will.

if baptism is a hardened rule , every unbaptized 14 year old who passed away in some sudden tradgedy even some who might have had intentions on getting baptized ……thier just victims of circumstance now because they didn’t meet the requirement created by some ?
God isn’t like that is the thing he gives us doctrine but if you haven’t noticed he’s not looking for technicalities to cast us out for like the law , he’s looking to create right living in our lives good fruit of brotherly love through giving us mercy and teaching us to be merciful.

I personally don’t think this says anything about believing and not getting baptized , it does however condemn unbelief

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s adding to that principle to make it say “ he that doesn’t believe or doesn’t get baptized in water is damned.


my belief is Jesus will judge all
Of us according to our deeds through repentance and remission of sins Jesus isn’t going to say “This group got baptized thier in “

This group lived the same ways but never got baptized thier out”


There really is no verse to say “
If you believe and don’t get baptized your out “ we have to add that part to make it appear

a lot of it clearly
And plainly teaches us what baptism is for many points important ones actually
never once dies it talk about failure to get baptized condemning a person.

And no I wouldnt say disagreeing with you in a biblical discussion forum is equal to “challenging God “or anything like that lol just to be clear I don’t equate your opinions of scripture to be the final decision on it or anything or my views either for that matter

this place is for discussing the Bible it isnt seminary where if you speak your offering infallible words none of us are we’re just Christians who read the Bible and have some measure of understanding to share from it.

so I don’t think like anyone else you’ve accused of this , I’m challenging God I was baptized many moons ago lol and advise anyone to get baptized who asks.

my only point to you is not getting baptized isn’t going to be why anyone is damned

Fire is correlated to the Spirit. Remember Pentecost.

Paul also being a early church father gave us a clear example how one must be saved.


Acts 16:30-31
New International Version

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Not really when your argument matches others who I have already responded to the same arguments. So I summed up my response.

Exactly to why Jesus was baptized. He was being prepared for a sacrifice but unknowingly to many it would be Him who takes the place for us. Jesus was already sinless.

It was literal in the sense a physical action but almost everything Jesus did was symbolic.

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1-

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭

“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judæa, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:5-6, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

“Now after that John was put in prison,

Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭



John the Baptist came just before Jesus began his ministry preparing the people calling them To repentance and baptism for remission in preparation for the promised messiah from the ot prophecies


Jesus was to be with his ckvenwnt as a refiners fire or fullers soap. A fullers soap was strong industrial salt /plant soap capable of deep cleaning . And a refiners fire is when impure metal is cast into a refiners fire which burns away the impure parts when the process is complete the metal is purified

this is what Jesus doctrine does to our mind and heart like a refiners fire or rough fullers soap the gospel has a cleansing power. John was talking about Jesus about to start preaching the gospel the refining fire of the soul that burns away the chaff and flesh from the heart

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:21-22, 25, 27-28, 31-32, 38-39‬ ‭

that type of doctrine has a power to change the Hearer and believer at thier core , and requires them to confront thier own human nature . Calls them to challenge their own self to change.

It’s not painless it’s like a pressure cooker or refiners fire humans have a lot of impurity the gospel can burn That away and leave pure hearts and minds if we take it seriously and learn from Jesus the lord and don’t pretend he’s just a scapegoat for our sins
Also is our teacher and risen savior and lord


There’s a baptism of fire in Christ it’s when we start learning and abiding in his word it works like a refiners fire burning away the sin in our mind and heart

According to what you mean by linked. For example,


Acts 16:30-31
New International Version

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”


Salvation came first then the water baptism later.

The Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost,

Noticed it remained on Him and now He baptized with the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5 in context the water is of physical birth of a woman

Acts 2:38
Question: Does the Holy Spirit in scripture always come after a water baptism?

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word (which came before baptism) were baptized.

Amen that is a sign of true repentance and bearing fruit of salvation.

The thief died under the OT. NT believers in the gospel message are required to repent, be water baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost. This began on the Day of Pentecost. These requirements line up with being born of water and Spirit as mentioned in John 3:3-5.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus began on the Day of Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus in Luke 24:47. And reflected throughout scripture.

Please provide scripture confirmation concerning baptism of fire. Thanks.

Thank you for your honest opinion, but I assure you it is honestly FALSE nonetheless.

No one who baptizes teches that there is "no real benefit or purpose" to water baptism. Where do you get your silly material from?

The fact is that it is not just a "symbol of something". Water baptism is symbolic of the believer's positional truth of being "in Him" when He died for us on the cross. That's very significant. And it is a public testimony of being in union with Christ.

You are still contradicted in your theology. You admit water baptism isn't required for salvation, but you claim that water baptism is required to be resurrected.

Since resurrection will be for ALL believers, the requirement you claim just doesn't make sense.

What do you do about believers who aren't baptized? Are you seriously claiming that they won't receive resurrection bodies?

And if not, where does the Bible address that obvious problem? What happens to them.

How is a person qualified to live with God forever? To have eternal life and an imperishable body. Yet, your claim is that unbaptized believers won't be resurrected. So what happens to them after the resurrection of all other believers in your view?

In order to believe in Christ, one automatically repents. For repentance is a change of mind.

Water baptism is NO MORE a requirement for salvation than circumcision.

The reception of the Holy Spirit is the new birth.

John's statement does not negate the need to be baptized in water. Jesus stated water baptism was to be done in order to fulfill all righteousness.

So you believe death bed conversions are illegitimate?

October 1953, a twin-engine B-25 veered off course and plunged into the fogbound summit of Pine Mountain, killing three Air Force crewmen and a passenger upon impact.

Colquitt, the minister, said he approached the airman and asked him if he had been saved. "We prayed and God saved him and then he died," Colquitt said. "Wasn't that a miracle?"

Does your gospel condemn the airman or was he saved?


Matthew 3:11
English Standard Version

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

God's fire either refines or destroys. The tongues of fire at Pentecost is also to represent the Holy Spirit.

Take note that the Holy Spirit is the gift. "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

In each of the conversion experiences, the people received the gift of the Holy Ghost and were baptized in the name of the Lord as well. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Being baptized in the name of the Lord refers to water baptism. "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48)

After the Samaritans were water baptized, Peter and John were sent to assist them in receiving the Holy Ghost. "Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Ephesus disciples: "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." And afterward they received the baptism of the Holy Ghost:
"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."