Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

I didn't know he was water baptized.

I do know the entire population of earth WAS fully immersed, but it didn't work out for them much.

The Scripture considers Noah and those in the Ark as water baptised = SYMBOLICLY

For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body,
but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.
1 peter 3:18-22

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.” And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism.

Then Paul said, “John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7).

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

OK, I thought you meant literally.

For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body,
but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.
1 peter 3:18-22[/QUOTE]
OK. What I like to point out in v.20 is that being saved THROUGH WATER means literal water doesn't save. In fact, the context shows that it was the entire human population that was fully immersed in literal water, and died.

Same for the entire Egyptian army when the Red Sea closed over them. Yet, Paul describes the Israelites as being baptized INTO Moses and INTO the sea, yet they walked through as on dry ground.

OK. What I like to point out in v.20 is that being saved THROUGH WATER means literal water doesn't save. In fact, the context shows that it was the entire human population that was fully immersed in literal water, and died.

Same for the entire Egyptian army when the Red Sea closed over them. Yet, Paul describes the Israelites as being baptized INTO Moses and INTO the sea, yet they walked through as on dry ground.[/QUOTE]

TWO things
#1 - the fact that the world was baptised, submerged under water, and perished underscores the fact that water baptism saves no one.
#2 - the RED Sea is symbolic of the blood covering that all must be under to be saved = thus 'RED'
What was 'baptized into Moses' mean? = the sacrificial blood from animals

Amen sister

“Let it be done in earth as it is in heaven “

“grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:

that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Both things are true

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

True and then , Also true

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

MAYBE I’M NOT YELLING AT YOU….

INSTEAD I’M JUST REALLY EXCITED AND OVERJOYED WITH GOD’S LOVE FOR YOU!!!! LOL!

No need to be so sensitive… oftentimes the all caps are easier to read for some of us older posters.

So…. Romans 6:4-5 huh? You say it means a literal resurrection. Well, let’s take a look

Actually, it’s best to read 6:3-6 together for better understanding…

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6:3-6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 6:3-6&version=KJV

Then, Paul gives a clear understanding in verses 11-14:

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:11-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 6:11-14&version=KJV

So, I would conclude that these scriptures are telling us to live a new life in Christ and stop sinning….choose Life; sin is Death.

Scripture proves obedience to water baptism is required for remission of sin. The belief that it is done as a public demonstration is not found in scripture.

As I mentioned previously, the command to repent was stated as necessary after people had already expressed belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)

"And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb. 5:9

Faith is made perfect through obedience to God's commands as expressed in Hebrews 11 and James 2:22.

Also, Jesus will tell some who believe in Him, I never knew you. (Matt. 7)

Believing in Jesus demands accepting everything stated in the Word. For Jesus is the Word. (John 1:1)

Cornelius and his family were, in fact, already obeying God's commands BEFORE they were water baptized, just like Noah.

God was not waiting to save Cornelius thru water baptism.
God was waiting to BLESS Cornelius and FILL him with the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

religion has it backwards

The following appears as your post, but is what I posted, for those who just read posts.
TWO things
#1 - the fact that the world was baptised, submerged under water, and perished underscores the fact that water baptism saves no one.
#2 - the RED Sea is symbolic of the blood covering that all must be under to be saved = thus 'RED'
What was 'baptized into Moses' mean? = the sacrificial blood from animals[/QUOTE]
The basic usage of the Greek word "baptizo" came to mean "to be identified with". Literally, it means "to immerse" and was used of dipping a cloth into a vat of dye. The cloth became "identified with" the color of the dye. That's how it came to mean "to be identified with". And that is how it is used in the Bible.

Every baptism is an identification or a symbol of an identification.

So, when the Israelites marched through the Sea, they were identified with Moses as their leader. They were under his leadership.

Their being "baptized into the sea" means they were identified with the sea. Both of these baptisms are literal and dry.

The water baptism of believers is a ritual, symbolic and wet. When the believer is baptized, he/she is being identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

No, it does not. remission (forgiveness of sins) is through faith in Christ. Acts 10:43 Acts 13:39.

Are you kidding? Where were the peeople being baptized? Where ever there was enough water to get immersed in. That would mean a lake, the sea, or river. And that, sir, is quite a public demonstration.

In fact, it is very clear that Cornelius was told by the angel that Peter would give them a message by which they would be SAVED. And as Peter was speaking, they received the Holy Spirit, which proves they were saved right THEN.

Water baptism followed, but they were already saved, and already received the Holy Spirit.

I can't imagine why some people are just so stubborn as to reject this truth and continue to error that water baptism is necessary for forgiveness, salvation, and receiving of the Spirit.

The basic usage of the Greek word "baptizo" came to mean "to be identified with". Literally, it means "to immerse" and was used of dipping a cloth into a vat of dye. The cloth became "identified with" the color of the dye. That's how it came to mean "to be identified with". And that is how it is used in the Bible.

Every baptism is an identification or a symbol of an identification.

So, when the Israelites marched through the Sea, they were identified with Moses as their leader. They were under his leadership.

Their being "baptized into the sea" means they were identified with the sea. Both of these baptisms are literal and dry.

The water baptism of believers is a ritual, symbolic and wet. When the believer is baptized, he/she is being identified with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.[/QUOTE]

YES and NO

You have the info right in front of you and you even posted it here = KEY WORDS = "IDENTIFIED" and RED (DYE)

They were not baptized into Moses but into what Moses was representative of = Exodus ch4
then Moses said to the Lord, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.”

So the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord? Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.”

Moses is the Spokesperson for Elohim and permanently connected to Moses you have the RED BLOOD beginning with the night of PASSOVER, Lamb's RED Blood on the Doorposts and Lintel and then the RED Blood from the many, many, many animal sacrifices.

Every year RED Blood animal sacrifices = Baptism of MOSES = RED Sea

Read Hebrews

i get the biggest laugh when they use 1 Peter 3 and quote 'Noah' who was saved 120 Years before he was 'symbolically' water baptized.
Salvation is a Beginning, Walk and Ending which then starts a New Beginning................

Your main point here seems to be that "Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:"

But when I looked carefully at the verses that you quote I did not find this statement clearly shown by the verses you give. You begin with I Corinthians 15:29, and from the context argue these people were posthumously conducting baptisms so that those already deceased could have resurrected bodies. Then you say that there is no evidence that this qualifies a dead person for a resurrection. Then you say this: "but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection."

OK, then I say let's see the evidence?
You produce Romans 6:4,5 and Colossians 2:12, and Galatians 3:27. These do all talk about "baptism" in the same context as resurrection or putting on Christ, etc. But that does not mean that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body.
There is also a Holy Spirit baptism, and if the writer wants to clearly differentiate the two, he will say which one that he means. But even if the writer does mean "water baptism" in each of these texts, still none of them come even close to saying that "water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body."

Sound biblical doctrine dare not be made by one's personal ideas and conclusions from a text. Doctrine must be clearly stated by plain Scripture. Hence I reject the idea that "water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body" as false doctrine.

Having said that, however, you are allowed to disagree, and discuss the issue as you wish. But this is where I stand.

“The belief that it is done as a public demonstration is not found in scripture.”

amen there isn’t even a suggestion of that in scripture. It’s what people come up with when they reject what it does say it’s for

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s nothing about Christianity that’s a public display or ritual without meaning. Its all about fulfilling Gods word and having the promises come to pass

AGREE 50%
The other 50% is the LORD'S ministry was very public and so is the ministry of the Gospel.
And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, (very public) and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Water baptism = outside, a public occurrence mostly then transitions from large groups down to samll groups and individuals.
Nothing hidden and a bold alignment of one's heart with the Gospel = private in the heart and publicly for all to see.

NOT to be done as a religious spectacle or announcement or ceremony.

This is a spontaneous outward act that is expressing the FIRST ACT of the SPIRIT Speaking (WIND blowing) upon a man's heart.

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it so desires,
and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

“The other 50% is the LORD'S ministry was very public and so is the ministry of the Gospel.”

yeah you. Us understand what I’m saying he doesn’t tell Us to do anything for public display there’s meaning spiritual true meaning in all He teaches us noting is for a show is all I’m saying.

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.”

yes agreed I’m saying he’s not saying “ get baptized so everyone can see make a public statement to everyone “ that’s not in scripture as the brother pointed out.

the only explaination given of what baptism is for is for remission of sins it was johns purpose in this world to give knowledge of remission through Christ call To repentance the people and for them personally to have thier conscience cleared of sins through thier one act of faith in Christ and his sacrifice

“And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: For thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people By the remission of their sins, Through the tender mercy of our God;

Whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:63, 76-78‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was preaching Jesus who would come after “ the lamb of God “ from
Prophecy who would be sacrificed for the sins of the people and rise to
Life again but he was baptizing THe people as was his purpose , with water but more importantly Gods ordaining word that sent John just as the world was about to receive Jesus the Christ to prepare the people through repentance of Mind and heart and remission of thier sins in him.

Baptism for repentance and remission calls the believer to a decision making point, “ do I believe this is true enough to start acting as if I believe it’s true ? “

“or do I believe this is true and that’s enough I don’t need to do anything he plainly says to do and receive the blessing he promises ? “

it calls us to humility repenting and needing to have our sins remitted , and real godly humility and faith in Jesus messiah is what’s needed to understand the gospel.

The recognition of the savior we need desperately and his name who will Never teach us error , tell us false promises and blessings or give us misleading instruction. He came to save us.

John was born full Of the Holy Ghost even in the womb. He also is in prophecy as an important figure who would arrive just before the messiah . When he arrived he was calling people to repentance , and baptizing them in water for Remission of sins preparing them for the gospel and ministry of Jesus

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me”

That’s about John and his baptism of repentance it paves the way for christs teachings to those who believe those sins are remitted and tbier able to approach him and know him

Baptism is important doctrine there’s no way around it. Coming tonjesus in an act of faith because we believe in his death and resurrection is important matter for us not for anyone else or the crowd or Public

but for the person getting baptized because of what they believe , it has to be faith according to belief.

once you accept it’s just important doctrine of the gospel these concepts all makes sense itself with scripture alone regarding baptism

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
‭‭
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4

see how it’s an Act of faith ?

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. …

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


When you here about baptism bekng for remission of sins believing Jesus died and rose and get baptized because you believe that you have acted in faith and have this now “answer of a good conscience toward God”

“I got baptized for remission of my sins just like Jesus said my conscience can. NOw witness this anytime my sins come up again there remitted by what God said , by obedience of faith my sins are remitted.

Now I can start learning from the lord jeering the word of righteousness

Some can hear things but some can’t

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re all Ok but there’s really not a debate about baptism in my own opinion it’s foundational doctrine