Is the law of Moses set aside?

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I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#141
Mar 17, 2022
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#141
Pilgrimshope said:
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

That can’t help us anymore

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that can save us now

Moses words and animal blood v Jesus words and his blood.

two laws and two covenants

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

turn the other cheek made me free from eye for an eye

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( the law of Moses )

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one word is life the other is death
Click to expand...
Someone has been reading the scripture.

The law of Christ is the new covenant law, the law of Moses is the old covenant law.

The new covenant law grants life and the old covenant law delivered death.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#142
Mar 17, 2022
2,333
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#142
Jesusfollower said:
Many versions of the bible replace the word iniquity in Matthew 7:23 (KJV) to Lawlessness. On biblehub, the interlinear version reads: "" lawlessness ""; from the greek word anomia , strong no 458. meaning ;

Strong's Concordance:
anomia: lawlessness
Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Definition: lawlessness
Usage: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

Verse
New International Version
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

New Living Translation
But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

English Standard Version
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Berean Study Bible
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Berean Literal Bible
And then I will declare unto them, 'I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness.'

King James Bible
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

New King James Version
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

New American Standard Bible
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; LEAVE ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

NASB 1995
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

NASB 1977
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Amplified Bible
And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME [you are banished from My presence], YOU WHO ACT WICKEDLY [disregarding My commands].’

Christian Standard Bible
Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers! ’

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

LINK: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/7-23.htm

Blessings,

JF
Click to expand...
How do you understand that verse (Matthew 7:23)?

Given that their works were identical to the apostles.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#143
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#143
Inquisitor said:
Someone has been reading the scripture.

The law of Christ is the new covenant law, the law of Moses is the old covenant law.

The new covenant law grants life and the old covenant law delivered death.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Click to expand...
Christ explained this to us. Christ did not change the rules of the law, in Matt. 5 Christ explains that he changed nothing. It was the method of delivery that was changed.

Even though God is spirit and truth, God used the fleshly understanding rather than the spirit in the old covenant. Rules were written in stone, without love. There were fleshly commandments given to help people understand the law. Instead of spiritually belonging to Christ, a fleshly sign of belonging was commanded. Even though the law given was truth, without love it was imperfect.

When the method of delivery was changed so law was put directly into out hearts, it made the imperfect law perfect, it fulfilled the law.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#144
#144
The ten commandments were given to the people as a basic out line of how God's people should live.
Since God is not a covenant breaker they still apply today. Not to obtain salvation but to live peacefully between God and man.
The stone represented the hearts of the people. Which needed to be broken in order to create a new heart there God would once again place his word and preserve it.

The first 4 commandments are a relationship with God.
The remaining 6 is mans relationship with man.

Jesus shows this in the new testament by the telling us the 2 greatest commandments.
Love your God with all your strength and heart. (The first 4)
Love your neighbor as your self (remaining 6).

Jesus came to fulfill not destroy so ask yourself did he not demonstrate how this is done?

God establishes that there is only one way to please him....in spirit and in truth.
Your neighbor may love you back....or may be your enemey...or in need....or spitefully use you....love them back.

This is how i see it...how it makes sense to me.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#145
Sep 2, 2020
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#145
Inquisitor said:
Someone has been reading the scripture.

The law of Christ is the new covenant law, the law of Moses is the old covenant law.

The new covenant law grants life and the old covenant law delivered death.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Click to expand...
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

dead to the law of Moses married to the word of Christ that produces fruit

“When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:19-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
K

Kerosenerag03

New member
#147
May 7, 2022
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#147
The Law was given to be our schoolmaster, to make us realize we are sinners. Thereby we were condemned by the Law. Then comes the flip side, that great word " but". But we're law abounded, grace much more abounds. For by grace ye are saved! Praise the Lord, He made a way. Once faith in the gospel comes, then salvation. In that salvation the righteousness of God is reavealed, from faith to faith!!! God imputes His righteousness because of faith, which it takes to please Him. That's were the fruit comes from, His righteousness living through us. Hallelujah, He is so good!!!
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#148
Mar 17, 2022
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#148
Jesusfollower said:
Simply, lawlessness means an utter disregard for God and His laws. matt 7 23 is very clear.

Blessings,

JF
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Do you mean the old covenant law or the new covenant law?

If you are referring to the old covenant law, do you mean all 613 laws, plus the law given in the prophets?

Matthew 7: 21-23 does not specify what type of 'lawlessness' is being referred to in the text.

Their works were useless in the end and that demolishes the concept of faith plus works.

To discover the true meaning of Matthew 7:21-23, we need to know the will of the Father.

We must be found to be preoccupied with that will of the Father.

Any wish to define the will of the Father?
 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#149
Oct 21, 2021
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jamaica
#149
Inquisitor said:
Do you mean the old covenant law or the new covenant law?

If you are referring to the old covenant law, do you mean all 613 laws, plus the law given in the prophets?

Matthew 7: 21-23 does not specify what type of 'lawlessness' is being referred to in the text.

Their works were useless in the end and that demolishes the concept of faith plus works.

To discover the true meaning of Matthew 7:21-23, we need to know the will of the Father.

We must be found to be preoccupied with that will of the Father.

Any wish to define the will of the Father?
Click to expand...

The will of the father is clearly defined in the scriptures. You have full access to the scriptures just like I do....

John, 14:12-18

12“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you [c]ask anything in My name, I will do it.
15“If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

john, 14:23-24

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Blessings,

JF
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#150
Mar 17, 2022
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#150
Jesusfollower said:
The will of the father is clearly defined in the scriptures. You have full access to the scriptures just like I do....

John, 14:12-18

12“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you [c]ask anything in My name, I will do it.
15“If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

john, 14:23-24

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Blessings,

JF
Click to expand...
As I said before; which set of commandments or law is being referred to by Jesus?

Old covenant law?

New covenant law?

Here are two powerful commandments given by Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him.

These two commandments above summarize the law of Moses.

Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

It seems that loving others as Christ loved us, is a better fit, and is the exact opposite of lawlessness.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#151
Mar 21, 2015
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#151
Inquisitor said:
Not sure if I understood your post.

There is moral law scattered throughout the law of Moses.

There was moral law in the garden that Adam disobeyed.

There is moral law given through the prophets.

Within the ten commandments there is a sabbath law, the sabbath law is not a moral law.

Your reply was incoherent.
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Yes there is moral Law throughout the writings of Moses and we should ask if they are Moses laws or Gods laws?
Were the laws present before Moses? Yes, God's morals don't change.

It comes to the Sabbath command again...... the 4th command of the 10 commandments. You say it is not a moral law but that is your opinion. It is part of the 10 written by God on stone and placed inside the ark between the cherubim, under the mercy seat.
To say it is not Holy and is not our moral duty to keep it Holy is presumption and contrary to Scripture. (keeping it will not save us but we don't make it void because of grace.)

Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

We have become Spiritual Israel today through Jesus. The fact that God created the world in Six days and rested has not changed.

Psa_119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Rom 2:21 -29.... keeping it inwardly.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
 
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