Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Consider also how Ephesians 1:13 parallels Acts 2:38: "In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
Right. We're SAVED FIRST by believing in Jesus Christ..... THEN, we can be Born Again by water and Spirit by getting Water Baptized and receiving the Holy Spirit Baptism.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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If a person is saved before baptism do they have the Holy Spirit in them?

I know you speak in tongues but does one have to be baptized in water to receive the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues?

Can one speak in tongues without being baptized in water?
I was BOTH Born-Again by the Spirit of God and Baptized in the Holy Spirit a full year BEFORE i was water baptized.
 
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Well, I know that I cannot be born again if I am NOT saved. However, I do believe that I CAN be SAVED yet, not Born Again.

I also believe, being SAVED and Born Again can all happen at once, and/or water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism can flip flop - no particular order. However, being SAVED always comes FIRST.
Dear Sister - your post made me chuckle..........
SAVED = BORN AGAIN = Circumcision of the Heart performed by the HOLY SPIRIT
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I know it sounds crazy, but if Jesus Christ was NOT born again by water and Spirit, then how was He going to fulfill being the First Born of many brethren?

I believe it refers to the fact that He was the FIRST to receive a resurrection (glorified) body.


Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
 
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God as the Word did come to Earth and took on flesh born of a virgin..... it is possible that God also took on a spiritual birth of water and Spirit and became the First Born of many brethren...

Well, there are lots of things that "can be possible". But unless the Bible clearly explains something, I find no reason to speculate or presume.


Why is Jesus telling us that we must be Born Again? :unsure:
In order to receive the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13,14
 
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Are you kids still playing around in the kiddie pool of water baptism.

FYI - water baptism is never mentioned in Revelation - where Reality takes over
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Salvation requires that one's sins be remitted.
Or, worded differently, salvation requires God to save someone. The only requirement for salvation is faith in Christ.

On that basis, God DOES save the person.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

What the verse doesn't say is that "God was pleased to elect some to believe."
 
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Yes, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe in Jesus Christ. However, we can also immediately receive the Holy Spirit Baptism too

To be sealed with the Spirit is the same as being baptized in the Spirit.

.... some get it immediately and some do not
Do you have any examples that support this?
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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Well, I know that I cannot be born again if I am NOT saved. However, I do believe that I CAN be SAVED yet, not Born Again.

I also believe, being SAVED and Born Again can all happen at once, and/or water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism can flip flop - no particular order. However, being SAVED always comes FIRST.
I may be missing it but where in the bible are we told being saved and being born again are two separate things?

As I understand it, we're born spiritually dead, removed from understanding or reaching , the righteousness of God. Because we're born in the flesh that is worldly, carnal, selfish.

When we head God's leading to his Salvation, and obtain our faith and Salvation through the bestowal of those irrevocable gifts of God, we're the saved from the spiritually dead condition into which we were born. And that is the meaning of being born again in the spirit absent in us at our first birth.

We are born spiritually dead if water. Then we're regenerated and born again by and through the living water of Jesus word, and Holy Spirit.

How are we saved from being spiritually dead at birth in the flesh if we're not also born again in the spirit that overcame that former human condition in us?

I don't see how we're saved from being born spiritually dead if that salvific transformation doesn't also overcome that condition we were born into the first time so to make us born again, spiritually alive and conscious of the now indwelling Holy Spirit.
 
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Well, I know that I cannot be born again if I am NOT saved. However, I do believe that I CAN be SAVED yet, not Born Again.

Could you provide evidence of this from Scripture? Thanks.


Eph 2:5 shows that regeneration (born again, made alive) is equated with being saved.

made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

The last phrase is a clarification of the first part of the verse. They go together.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
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Being conceived of the Holy Spirit, I really get the impression that Jesus was born "from above" to begin with and did not need to be "born again". He was born of the Spirit when he was born in the flesh. Well, way before that actually. But the man was born "born of the spirit" to begin with.
 
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I feel sorry for those who are in lands where water is scarce. ;)
People can’t live for very long where there isn’t water or water is scarce. No time in the history of life on earth do people or animals stay where there is no water. People will naturally go to wherever the water is so getting baptized is always a reasonable expectation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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And Jesus became the author of salvation unto all those who obey Him. (Heb. 5:9)
Author of Eternal Salvation is there :D

I didn't think they'd all fit! :giggle:
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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People can’t live for very long where there isn’t water or water is scarce. No time in the history of life on earth do people or animals stay where there is no water. People will naturally go to wherever the water is so getting baptized is always a reasonable expectation.
Emersion baptism?
I think that would surprise Namibia's Himba tribe.
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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And Jesus became the author of salvation unto all those who obey Him. (Heb. 5:9)
What of those who fail to do so in some way? Is their Salvation then revoked?

I've met some Christians who insist the ten commandments of God, that Jesus taught and said, if we love him we'll keep his commands, no longer apply.

Is our Salvation in peril if we don't obey those?
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
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Maybe at this juncture John 15 could shed some light on this matter of water.

Jesus said, I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 
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What of those who fail to do so in some way? Is their Salvation then revoked?

I've met some Christians who insist the ten commandments of God, that Jesus taught and said, if we love him we'll keep his commands, no longer apply.

Is our Salvation in peril if we don't obey those?
Well we know the 10 Commandments apply and that the LORD Jesus Christ Kept them Perfectly for us.
So we have a Eternal High Priest seated at the Right Hand of the FATHER that forever intercedes on our behalf.

With that said, we are not given the 10 Commandments to obey but we have been given JESUS to obey and the Holy Spirit to write God's laws on our hearts and minds.
Maybe this is what some may mean when they say = "no longer apply"???

All i know is that sin is sin no matter how you spin that sin.
And a Win is a Win when we obey His Word
Therefore Fear God and keep the commandments
Which ones you say? the ones that Keep us His Way
Not from the law of Moses - NO not that which passed away
But the LAMB Blood Covenant of this NEW DAY
Where the COMFORTER comes to STAY
i know no other Way
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
443
135
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Well we know the 10 Commandments apply and that the LORD Jesus Christ Kept them Perfectly for us.
So we have a Eternal High Priest seated at the Right Hand of the FATHER that forever intercedes on our behalf.

With that said, we are not given the 10 Commandments to obey but we have been given JESUS to obey and the Holy Spirit to write God's laws on our hearts and minds.
Maybe this is what some may mean when they say = "no longer apply"???

All i know is that sin is sin no matter how you spin that sin.
And a Win is a Win when we obey His Word
Therefore Fear God and keep the commandments
Which ones you say? the ones that Keep us His Way
Not from the law of Moses - NO not that which passed away
But the LAMB Blood Covenant of this NEW DAY
Where the COMFORTER comes to STAY
i know no other Way
I don't consider the ten commandments to be the law of Moses. Moses merely delivered the tablets God inscribed with God's law. They are the commands of and from God. Not Moses.

And if we read them I think we see they encompass every detail as pertains to keeping ourselves in God's way.

Jesus said, the two greatest commands of God are to love God with all our heart and mind.
And to love our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two commands hang the laws and the prophets.

I see that as informing us the laws of God are synonymous with those two greatest commands. Because those two encompass the ten.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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I dont consider the ten commandments to be the law of Moses. Moses merely delivered the tablets God inscribed with God's law. They are the commands of and from God. Not Moses.

And if we read them i think we see they encompass every detail as pertains to keeping ourselves in God's way.

Jesus said, the two greatest commands of God are to love God with all our heart and mind.
And to love our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two commands hang the laws and the prophets.

I see that as informing us the laws of God are synonymous with those two greatest commands. Because those two encompass the ten.
Your super close to the Kingdom but just a little off.
Never conclude that what the LORD fulfilled was a return to the law of Moses for us.

But you are SUPER ClOSE here: "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”