Nearest Sam Harris podcast on the problem of gun violence in America

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Dude653

Dude653

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#1
Mar 19, 2011
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#1
Sam and his guest Graeme Wood discuss America is unique problem with gun violence
Disclaimer. Sam drops an F bomb once but other than that it's an formative and in-depth conversation about the issue of gun violence in America
Sam brings up the point that even if we did ban rifles like the ar-15, that would not come anywhere near solving the gun violence problem
Of course most of you would disagree with Sam's theology but and I like him so much is he seems to have a unique ability to restructure an argument and give you another way to look at it
Without further Ado I present Sam Harris on gun violence

 
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gb9

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#2
Jan 18, 2011
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when and how can an inanimate object commit violence??
 
Dude653

Dude653

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Mar 19, 2011
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gb9 said:
when and how can an inanimate object commit violence??
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He makes a valid argument. You have a shooter who comes into a school with an AR-15. It's point blank and no one is shooting back.
He could do the same thing with a handgun and a jacket full of magazines
Most gun violence in America is committed with handguns
So could it be the problem is that the shooter is able to make it into the building with the gun in the first place?
 
G

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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Dude653 said:
He makes a valid argument. You have a shooter who comes into a school with an AR-15. It's point blank and no one is shooting back.
He could do the same thing with a handgun and a jacket full of magazines
Most gun violence in America is committed with handguns
So could it be the problem is that the shooter is able to make it into the building with the gun in the first place?
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yes, there are mixed reports that a teacher either left a door propped a door open, and/ or the door did not lock when closed .

so many mixed messages...
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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gb9 said:
yes, there are mixed reports that a teacher either left a door propped a door open, and/ or the door did not lock when closed .

so many mixed messages...
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Something is extremely fishy about that story.

1. I was a teacher and having the doors lock was critical. I would think that if you lived near the border with all kinds of undocumented aliens walking through your neighborhood and doing things that result in 48 lockdowns that doors that lock would be a major concern.

2. The teacher assumed that once she closed the door it would lock so they were not aware that it was broken.

3. Now imagine, what are the odds that one school has one door that wouldn't lock in this town and this guy with his $83,000 worth of guns happens to use that one side door that won't lock.

4. But to add to this very fortuitous bit of luck for the shooter he also had another bit of luck which is that the police waited 40 minutes before coming in.
 
Dude653

Dude653

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Mar 19, 2011
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I'm thinking probably the best thing to do in that situation is to instruct everyone to just run for the nearest exit
Unfortunately there will still be some casualties but most people will probably make it out
And you just send in the SWAT team to take care of business
 
Billyd

Billyd

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May 8, 2014
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Everyone running to and piling on the attacker could reduce the number of fatal casualties. Just a idea.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Billyd said:
Everyone running to and piling on the attacker could reduce the number of fatal casualties. Just a idea.
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You would make a great elementary school teacher. I can see all the parents loving your teaching their kids to run to the man shooting the kids.

We could use this same principle with teaching kids how to protect themselves from pedophiles. Instead of saying not to take candy from strangers and not to get into the van, pile in.

The shepherd of the sheep lays down His life for the sheep. A hireling will run away. We saw this in Texas, it was the father of one of the kids who ran into the building, shot the killer and saved his wife and kid.
 
Dude653

Dude653

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ZNP said:
You would make a great elementary school teacher. I can see all the parents loving your teaching their kids to run to the man shooting the kids.

We could use this same principle with teaching kids how to protect themselves from pedophiles. Instead of saying not to take candy from strangers and not to get into the van, pile in.

The shepherd of the sheep lays down His life for the sheep. A hireling will run away. We saw this in Texas, it was the father of one of the kids who ran into the building, shot the killer and saved his wife and kid.
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Yeah Harris covered this in the podcast.
If he gets about 10 people tackling him, he's going down to the floor
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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Dude653 said:
Yeah Harris covered this in the podcast.
If he gets about 10 people tackling him, he's going down to the floor
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This is idiotic and everyone who is seriously into preventing these deaths would never recommend this.

1. Tackling a guy with a gun is something that requires a special mindset that 95% of the kids and teachers don't have. You cannot hesitate it you take this approach. They will.

2. Tackling a guy with a gun requires training. If he tries to shoot up the football team then, yes, go for it. If he tries to shoot up the wrestling team then sure, go for it. But other than that you wont' have a class filled with trained people.

Instead their natural inclination will be to run and to throw things. When we practiced the drills I taught them (HS, not elementary school) to cover the windows, turn off the lights, lock the doors and be quiet. If he does try to break into one door we would push the desks against the door to prevent this. No point in being quiet anymore. If he were to get in one door then we had big textbooks to throw at him while everyone tried to flee out the other door.

Second during the drills it would become obvious which kids we would want trying to hold the door. You want to practice so there isn't any confusion.

But, with all that said, I would never even consider "tackling" him with elementary school kids.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#11
#11
ZNP said:
This is idiotic and everyone who is seriously into preventing these deaths would never recommend this.

1. Tackling a guy with a gun is something that requires a special mindset that 95% of the kids and teachers don't have. You cannot hesitate it you take this approach. They will.

2. Tackling a guy with a gun requires training. If he tries to shoot up the football team then, yes, go for it. If he tries to shoot up the wrestling team then sure, go for it. But other than that you wont' have a class filled with trained people.

Instead their natural inclination will be to run and to throw things. When we practiced the drills I taught them (HS, not elementary school) to cover the windows, turn off the lights, lock the doors and be quiet. If he does try to break into one door we would push the desks against the door to prevent this. No point in being quiet anymore. If he were to get in one door then we had big textbooks to throw at him while everyone tried to flee out the other door.

Second during the drills it would become obvious which kids we would want trying to hold the door. You want to practice so there isn't any confusion.

But, with all that said, I would never even consider "tackling" him with elementary school kids.
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Don't know, was saying to hubby last night most of these kids have grown up playing video games, I bet most are a better shot then any cop. My nephews use to play and could beat any adult at it. Thankfully now they have moved on to sports and other real life situations. I say (jokingly) arm the kids and tell them there's a zombie in the building, they'd have that nutcase taken out in 2mins flat. Seriously, harden the target. If shooters know they have to fight their way in, they'll choose an easier place. My church is way out in the country, just a little church. But for a year now they have been doing things differently to protect people on Sunday and during the week. Harden the targets and shooters will give up.
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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kaylagrl said:
Don't know, was saying to hubby last night most of these kids have grown up playing video games, I bet most are a better shot then any cop. My nephews use to play and could beat any adult at it. Thankfully now they have moved on to sports and other real life situations. I say (jokingly) arm the kids and tell them there's a zombie in the building, they'd have that nutcase taken out in 2mins flat. Seriously, harden the target. If shooters know they have to fight their way in, they'll choose an easier place. My church is way out in the country, just a little church. But for a year now they have been doing things differently to protect people on Sunday and during the week. Harden the targets and shooters will give up.
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"Arm the kids". Stopped reading at that point. My suggestion is you do not have a career as a comedian.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#13
#13
ZNP said:
"Arm the kids". Stopped reading at that point. My suggestion is you do not have a career as a comedian.
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Sigh, calm down Z, you know me at least a little by now. If you haven't seen these kids, almost totally boys, on these video games, then you don't understand what I mean.
This isn't Twitter, lets sheath the tongue a little. Did you know libs suggestion was arming kids with small bats, balls or stones to throw at a shooter? And they weren't joking!! Use to be in the south a young man was taught by his father to handle a gun properly to hunt and to protect the home when father was away. Imagine that Z!! And guess what, we have more school shootings than we ever did then.
 
Dude653

Dude653

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Mar 19, 2011
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Just a couple days ago some Muslim extremist shot up with Catholic Church in nigeria. It's almost as if there's a worldwide problem with Islamic terrorism or something. This is why I disarming the population would be a bad idea
 
ZNP

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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#15
Dude653 said:
Just a couple days ago some Muslim extremist shot up with Catholic Church in nigeria. It's almost as if there's a worldwide problem with Islamic terrorism or something. This is why I disarming the population would be a bad idea
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Simple solution, just get the governments to promise to give the guns back in the event they turn into a tyrannical anti Christian government run by the AntiChrist.
 
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