Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

The Bible says a lot of things. There just isn't a verse that plainly says "Once saved always saved," resulting in these kind of threads. If you want OSAS then you can find it in the Bible at the expense of ignoring verses that seem to suggest salvation can be lost.

Furthermore, eternal life seems based on access to the tree of life and access to the tree of life can be revoked per the story of Adam and Eve, thus losing access to immortality.

Genesis 3:22 KJV
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Revelation 2:7 KJV
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to eat from the tree of life in the Paradise of God.

It's possible that continual eating of the tree of life is necesarry to life forever. Adam and Eve lost their access to immortality so why can't anyone else?

How many times does God save you if you are born again?
So, are you saved once, or are you "re-saved" over and over?

Just a little common sense here, and you can get out of this misunderstanding of OSAS.

Jesus said those who have eternal life will never perish. Totally agree with that. Do those in hell live forever too?

What's "so difficult to understand" is that verses which I've read such as Heb. 6:4 and others seem to warn about the risk of losing salvation. Maybe there are other scriptures that contradict that, but the bottom line is that I'm not convinced either way.
One thought which may be relevant - What about Judas Iscariot? Apparently he believed and wasn't saved at the end.
Another thought - What if someone is very negative and hates the idea being a slave of God and encounters the gospel. Although he hates it, he believes it in the sense of believing the facts are true, but without a change of heart. He continues his worldly life, having contempt for God - even leading others away from God - even encouraging others "to use this loophole".
Eventually he dies after cursing God one last time.
Is he saved?

What's "so difficult to understand" is that verses which I've read such as Heb. 6:4 and others seem to warn about the risk of losing salvation. Maybe there are other scriptures that contradict that, but the bottom line is that I'm not convinced either way.

One thought which may be relevant - What about Judas Iscariot? Apparently he believed and wasn't saved at the end.

Another thought - What if someone is very negative and hates the idea being a slave of God and encounters the gospel.

Although he hates it, he believes it in the sense of believing the facts are true, but without a change of heart.

He continues his worldly life, having contempt for God - even leading others away from God - even encouraging others "to use this loophole".

Eventually he dies after cursing God one last time.
Is he saved?

Do you believe the Bible is the word of God? Yes? Then you must assume they God does not speak impotently.

Jesus said those who have eternal life will never perish. Totally agree with that. Do those in hell live forever too?

Yes judging them.. but removing the individual salvation from them?

Ezra...Israel is continually getting caught up in sins. They rebuild the temple but then it is revealed that they are intermingling with other people.

Ezra.. astonied.. frustrated.. grieving.. what is God doing?

Withholding punishment! Giving grace.

But even if God did wipe out Israel.. that doesn't mean He removed salvation from them individually.

How many times does God save you if you are born again?
So, are you saved once, or are you "re-saved" over and over?

Just a little common sense here, and you can get out of this misunderstanding of OSAS.

You are saved after death and God passes judgement and says so. ..."it is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgment".....
While on this earth...you are born again...only. If you were saved then what is God judging you for?

Eternal life is ETERNAL. otherwise it is not eternal life

Adam and eve did not lose salvation. they did nt NEED saved before the fall. They earned their right standing with God becayse they did not have sin

Salvation was not required until AFTER the fall.

as for overcoming

1 John 5:
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

It is our faith that we are born of God (born again)

and the result of this is we overcome the world. and become command keepers not breakers (like the world)

FreeGrace2 said:
Here's the difference. As you note here, there are "verses THAT SEEM TO SUGGET salvation can be lost".

What you have to IGNORE are the verses that very clearly SAY that those given eternal life shall never perish, and that those sealed with the Holy Spirit are GUARANTEED an inheritance for the day of redemption as God's POSSESSION.

If a person just can't figure out what these verses are saying, they have a huge problem.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying the issue. The OSNAS'ers only have verses THAT SEEM TO SUGGEST salvation can be lost.

If the clear words of Jesus in John 5:24, which addresses the WHEN a believer possesses eternal life, and John 10:28, which addresses the result of possessing eternal life, don't convince you, I would conclude that you don't want to be convinced. There isn't any more clear words in the Bible that these 2 verses that prove eternal security.

iow, once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

There is nothing that "seems to say..." in these verses. They are plainly stated.


No, there is no "apparently". No verse even suggests he wa saved. And John 6:70,71 tells us specifically WHY he was one of the chosen.


That person wouldn't believe the gospel then.


Why do you use such hypotheticals? Why not just BELIEVE what Jesus said about those who believe? They POSSESS eternal life. And Jesus also said recipients of eternal life (that would be believers) shall never perish.

What's so difficult in simply accepting (believing) what Jesus said.

The answer is that you are so full of hypotheticals which are keeping you from focusing on what Jesus SAID.

It's like you are just second guessing God. Well, He said this.....but then there's that. Not the way to read and believe the Bible.


There is no reason to assume that this person WOULD believe the promise of eternal life and salvation, given all you've described.

So you just have a red herring, that's all.


IF IF IF IF IF he ever believed that Jesus IS the Son of God, and GIVES eternal life to those who trust Him for it, SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So, apply that to your hypothetical and you will have your
Your first point - I may WELL have "a huge problem". There may be verses which say with sufficient clarity that salvation cannot be lost. To me, there are verses that suggest both sides. As for your second - I don't want to be convinced by insufficient

I don't know what the problem is with my texting - letters keep getting missed out, along with other "gremlins". My references you quote are not coming up, so I may be missing some of the points, but I'll try to respond appropriately. Anyway - re. Your second point - I don't want to be convinced by insufficient reasoning. Your next point seems to be about Judas Iscariot. It seems he DID believe in the context of believing He was the Messiah. Your next point seems to reference the case of the cynical man. If so, again he DID believe in the same context. As for "hypotheticals" and "simply believing" - hypotheticals can help to elucidate the truth. "Simply believing" can lead in some cases to having a dangerously naive and erroneous belief. As to "the way to read the Bible", we are to read the Bible with diligence and care and not be open to be trapped by simplistic interpretations. "There is no reason to believe that this person WOULD believe..." seems to reference "the cynical man" I described. WHY?!!

I don't know what the problem is with my texting - letters keep getting missed out, along with other "gremlins". My references you quote are not coming up, so I may be missing some of the points, but I'll try to respond appropriately

Anyway - re. Your second point - I don't want to be convinced by insufficient reasoning.

Your next point seems to be about Judas Iscariot. It seems he DID believe in the context of believing He was the Messiah.

Your next point seems to reference the case of the cynical man. If so, again he DID believe in the same context.

As for "hypotheticals" and "simply believing" - hypotheticals can help to elucidate the truth.

"Simply believing" can lead in some cases to having a dangerously naive and erroneous belief.

As to "the way to read the Bible", we are to read the Bible with diligence and care and not be open to be trapped by simplistic interpretations.

"There is no reason to believe that this person WOULD believe..." seems to reference "the cynical man" I described. WHY?!!

An additional point on believing - Paraphrasing - Men came to Jesus and said, - We've done various things in Your name. He replied "I never knew you, for when I was hungry, you never fed me, etc.". Jesus quite clearly said these people are damned. Yet it seems they believed,

even apparently successfully performing miracles in His name. How is this?

It seems a pivotal issue in this debate is the nature of believing.

Another point - I don't know who, if any, among you knows of Matt Dillahunty of "The Atheist Experience". He is an ex-Christian, who now does not believe. Is HE saved?

You have conflated 2 different texts. Matt 7:21-23 is a crowd that tried to base their entrance into the kingdom on what THEY DID. That is not faith in Him. Faith or believing is on what HE DID for them. And since Jesus told them "I NEVER knew you", that proves that they never believed.

The verse about being hungry and feeding is in Matt 25 and the key is the last verse, 46 - “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Even though the full text speaks of works, the key is "the righteous". This refers specifically believers, because Romans 3 and 4 teach very clearly that God credits righteousness to those who believe.


Easy. Satan is able to heal people simply by commanding the demon in that ill person to leave and when it leaves, the person is healed. This is one of the ways Satan deceives people. He uses phony pastors/faith healers to appear to have the gift of healing, but it's all Satan deceiving people. Even when the imposters do it "in His Name". Think of 2 Cor 11:13,14
13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.


Not sure what you mean by "nature". Do you mean what needs to be believed?


Simple answer. Based on John 5:24 and 10:28 AND Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5, did he receive eternal life and the Holy Spirit?

If so, according to these verses, YES.

I can up you one. Charles Templeton. He was an evangelist who mentored Billy Graham when he started out. They shared a room during a European crusade in 1947. Reports say that his crusades resulted in hundreds of thousands of people coming to Christ.

All I know is what the Bible SAYS. When a person receives eternal life and the sealing of the Spirit, they ARE saved, and they shall not perish. So says Jesus.

I would never argue with Jesus.

Fifty years later, Lee Strobel had an opportunity to interview Templeton, who had just a couple of more years to live. He was in his 80s and suffering from Alzheimer’s, but still a clear conversation parter. In A Case for Faith, Strobel recounts the ending of their wide-ranging conversation.

“And how do you assess this Jesus?” It seemed like the next logical question—but I wasn’t ready for the response it would evoke.
Templeton’s body language softened. It was as if he suddenly felt relaxed and comfortable in talking about an old and dear friend. His voice, which at times had displayed such a sharp and insistent edge, now took on a melancholy and reflective tone. His guard seemingly down, he spoke in an unhurried pace, almost nostalgically, carefully choosing his words as he talked about Jesus.
“He was,” Templeton began, “the greatest human being who has ever lived. He was a moral genius. His ethical sense was unique. He was the intrinsically wisest person that I’ve ever encountered in my life or in my readings. His commitment was total and led to his own death, much to the detriment of the world. What could one say about him except that this was a form of greatness?”
I was taken aback. “You sound like you really care about him,” I said.
“Well, yes, he is the most important thing in my life,” came his reply. “I . . . I . . . I . . . ,” he stuttered, searching for the right word, ‘I know it may sound strange, but I have to say . . . I adore him!” . . .
” . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus. Yes . . . yes. And tough! Just look at Jesus. He castigated people. He was angry. People don’t think of him that way, but they don’t read the Bible. He had a righteous anger. He cared for the oppressed and exploited. There’s no question that he had the highest moral standard, the least duplicity, the greatest compassion, of any human being in history. There have been many other wonderful people, but Jesus is Jesus….’
“Uh . . . but . . . no,’ he said slowly, ‘he’s the most . . .” He stopped, then started again. “In my view,” he declared, “he is the most important human being who has ever existed.”
That’s when Templeton uttered the words I never expected to hear from him. “And if I may put it this way,” he said as his voice began to crack, ‘I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that tears flooded his eyes. He turned his head and looked downward, raising his left hand to shield his face from me. His shoulders bobbed as he wept. . . .
Templeton fought to compose himself. I could tell it wasn’t like him to lose control in front of a stranger. He sighed deeply and wiped away a tear. After a few more awkward moments, he waved his hand dismissively. Finally, quietly but adamantly, he insisted: “Enough of that.”