apostleship of Paul

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#21
Dec 6, 2016
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#21
NotmebutHim said:
It would be helpful if we considered Matthew 5, Acts 15 and Galatians 3 together. We have to let "Scripture interpret Scripture".

Jesus' words in Matthew 5 regarding the Mosaic Law were directed at a (mostly) Jewish audience. He pointed out that He did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfil it.

In Acts 15, the Church leaders decided that Gentiles should not be bound to the Mosaic Law, but rather they should observe these four things: don't eat meat that has been sacrificed to idols, avoid sexual immorality, do not eat blood and do not eat anything that has been strangled.

In Galatians 3, Paul, speaking to Gentiles, wrote that the Law doesn't make us righteous before God, but rather our faith & trust in Christ.

So, Jesus' and Paul's words regarding the Law work together, not against each other.
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The law of the Lord is not Jewish nor is it gentile. Ir is truth. God gave the law during old testament times by writing it on stones. It was of the flesh--it was communicated to man through his flesh. As Matthew 5 points out, the law did not change with Christ, but how it is given to us changed. Now it is the spirit of the law, and the rest of Matthew 5 explains how that changed the aw. We are not to use symbolism of the law an more, no more cutting flesh and eating only clean food, but we are to listen to the spirit of the law.

Because gentiles who accepted the true God needed o learn about him at the synagogue, they were told to obey the parts of the Mosaic law that allowed them to go to the synagogue to hear God's word, as explained in Acts 15.
 
RichGladden

RichGladden

Banned
#22
Jul 16, 2022
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#22
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
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Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus appeared unto him, blinding him and spoke with him, at which time He chose him. I find his techings sound. If you find them faulty, perhaps your translation is inferior, or your whole Bible is a lie, therefore your faith is in vain, Try King James version.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#23
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#23
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles. The true apostles were the ones personally appointed by Jesus Christ son of GOD himself. The true apostle of Christ, lived with him and were thought by him. It was not the case with paul The contradiction you mention in james is very real and only one of many and cannot be reconciled with the words of Paul. Paul in his writings contradicts himself and most importantly contradicts Christ in reference to the law. This cannot be denied in any way!

You have a choice to make, the truth of Christ of the words of Paul. Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong. You will not be able to. You can start with James writings that align with Christ words but not with Paul's. Often, there are serious flaw in your comprehension of scriptures regarding the law, and works that I cannot comprehend. I have a feeling you have been mislead from the truth by false teachers and I fear for you. Your only teacher should be the words Jesus Christ, do not let someone else interpret for you please use own
judgment when reading scriptures.

Chris, May the lord open your heart to the absolute truths of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ son of the living GOD, peace.


JF
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I'm am glad at least to see that you have the intellectual honesty to reject all the scripture written through Paul in favor of your private false doctrines.

It is honestly refreshing to see you deleting the NT rather than try to twist it into what it definitely doesn't say.

Open heresy is IMO easier to deal with than disguised.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#24
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#24
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle,
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Confirmed so by Luke, who wrote Acts, and also by Peter. I'm afraid you'll have to delete them from your Bible too.

You keep going down this road and you will have nothing left in your NT but James, and you will only retain his letter because you don't understand it.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#25
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#25
posthuman said:
Confirmed so by Luke, who wrote Acts, and also by Peter. I'm afraid you'll have to delete them from your Bible too.

You keep going down this road and you will have nothing left in your NT but James, and you will only retain his letter because you don't understand it.
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@Jesusfollower

Given this I suggest one of two courses:

(1) Start lying to yourself as soon as possible, for the sake of your own sanity. Tell yourself for example that the gospel of John doesn't exist, and that Luke 18:10-14 is a forgery.
(2) Or, preferably, humble yourself and pray to God for understanding.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#26
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#26
Jesusfollower said:
Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong.
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**ahem**

Acts 17:10-12
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Yer gonna have to delete not only the whole NT but also the OT in order to keep your private doctrine, friend.

We can walk you through it if you are willing.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#27
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#27
Jesusfollower said:
Please test and verify the teachings of Christ and the true apostle against Paul's and prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

Mark 10:18
No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Do you believe this?
Yes or no?

Because that is essentially equivalent to Romans chapters 1-3

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe this?
Yes or no?

Because that is essentially equivalent to Romans chapters 4-8.
 
A

Amanuensis

Well-known member
#28
Jun 12, 2021
1,457
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#28
Saul is Hebrew. Paul is Greek. Same name. People are making up things about Paul being post conversion name.

James did not contradict Paul. James was responding to people who misunderstood Paul. James said exactly what Paul meant.
James words are there because God knew there would be false teachers who tried to teach things like antinomianism.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#29
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#29
Amanuensis said:
Saul is Hebrew. Paul is Greek. Same name. People are making up things about Paul being post conversion name.

James did not contradict Paul. James was responding to people who misunderstood Paul. James said exactly what Paul meant.
James words are there because God knew there would be false teachers who tried to teach things like antinomianism.
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Paul was a Jew with a Roman citizenship.

Phil. 3: 4-6 .....If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

Well-known member
#30
Nov 12, 2021
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#30
Jesusfollower said:
Hello Chris, Paul was a self proclaimed apostle, even boasting to be the better one of the apostles.
Click to expand...


I challenge you ------to provide the Scripture for your comments here --------you make these claims ---that Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle and that he boasted about being the better Apostle ---- now prove it with Scripture Please ------

I await your scripture posting for your proof ------
 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#31
Oct 21, 2021
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jamaica
#31
I will explain what I meant with scriptures, I should have done so. Many of you have judged me not knowing me. in brief I believe in Christ and his teachings. Christ is the son of God.
and to answer briefly Posthuman;

Mark 10:18
No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Do you believe this? YES!

and

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe this?
Yes or no? YES! and that will never change.

Many have accused me of saying things that I did not but i expected that.

John 15:18:20;

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

Many people here make Paul superior to Christ , this is a serious matter and I ask you again, what did Paul add that Christ himself did not say or do?
Anyone can answer this one? Please quote scriptures in proper context.

Peace,

JF

 
J

Jesusfollower

Active member
#32
Oct 21, 2021
352
195
43
jamaica
#32
studentoftheword said:
I challenge you ------to provide the Scripture for your comments here --------you make these claims ---that Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle and that he boasted about being the better Apostle ---- now prove it with Scripture Please ------

I await your scripture posting for your proof ------
Click to expand...
it's coming will take a bit of time but its coming.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#35
Feb 22, 2021
2,963
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Midwest
#35
ChristianMystic said:
All I can say is that I feel the Spirit of God reveals to me that both statements are true: we are redeemed through faith...
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RichGladden said:
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus appeared unto him, blinding him and spoke with him, at which time He chose him. I find his teachings sound. If you find them faulty, perhaps your translation is inferior, or your whole Bible is a lie, therefore your faith is in vain,
Try King James version.
Click to expand...
Precious friends, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#36
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#36
GRACE_ambassador said:
"
...“Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man,​
but By Jesus Christ, and God the Father, Who​
Raised Him from the dead; )” (Gal. 1:1)...​

...As you read these opening words, you can almost hear the thunder in the
apostle’s voice as he declares in his opening salvo...

...Saul, a name that means desired...after he got saved, he began to go
by the name of Paul instead (Acts 13:9), a name that means small...Saul
no longer wanted to be desired of men; he now wanted to appear small in
their eyes that they might rather desire The LORD!...

...are you still seeking to be desired of men?...

...most Christians know that Paul asserts that salvation is by Grace through faith
without works (Rom. 4:5), but they also know that Chief Apostle James is just as
adamant that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20).

So to homogenize these two opposite and contradictory messages they conclude
that Paul is talking about justification before God while James is addressing the
issue of justification before men, even though The LORD never asked anyone to
be justified before men—in fact, He condemned it (Luke 16:15)!

And on and on it goes, as futile attempts are made to try to blend Paul’s unique
message with the teachings of The LORD’s chiefest apostles, the other writers of
the New Testament. How much easier it would be to just acknowledge the
distinctive apostleship and message of the Apostle Paul—and how much
more Scriptural!...
"
(R Kurth)

FULL study link

View attachment 241443

GRACE And Peace...
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“Works” is a bit of a buzzword in Christianity and to some it even seems to be a derogatory term.

The confusion and discord is that works is used in different ways. To understand Christ, Paul, James, etc we need to understand their language and they weren’t always crystal clear. The Bible is one of those books that has to actually be read thoroughly so context is key.

Works can refer to three things:

1. Obeying the Law of Moses. Sometimes called “works of the Law.”
2. Good works. These are good deeds motivated by love.
3. An activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
 
RichGladden

RichGladden

Banned
#37
Jul 16, 2022
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#37
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#38
Jul 31, 2013
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#38
Jesusfollower said:
what did Paul add that Christ himself did not say or do?
Anyone can answer this one? Please quote scriptures in proper context.
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Paul did nothing;
Christ-God speaking & working through Paul by His Spirit added understanding to us; revelation of the mysteries:

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles — if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.​
To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.​
(Ephesians 3:1-12) ​
​
if you'll recall, the 12 very often had no idea what Jesus was talking about when He walked with them - and told them Himself they would be reminded of these things and taught by the Spirit He sent after He left. see for example Acts 11:16
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#39
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
113
#39
Jesusfollower said:
Mark 10:18
No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Do you believe this? YES!

and

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe this?
Yes or no? YES! and that will never change.
Click to expand...
then why do you reject His chosen instrument, Paul?
why would you say we have to 'choose' between them, as though they are at odds?
he writes the same things.

if no one is good but God, then no one can be justified through their own merit, therefore salvation can only be by grace else there is no salvation at all.
if the one believing in Christ will live, then salvation is by faith.
if whoever believes in Christ will live, even if they die, and living in Him will never die, then salvation is eternal, the gift of God, not by works - no one can boast - and if we live even though we die, then we have died with Him to be raised by Him, and if we have died we are no longer under the jurisdiction of the law, but having died live by faith in the Son of God who loved us & gave Himself.

where is the supposed contradiction??
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#40
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#40
Jesusfollower said:
I will explain what I meant with scriptures, I should have done so. Many of you have judged me not knowing me. in brief I believe in Christ and his teachings. Christ is the son of God.
and to answer briefly Posthuman;

Mark 10:18
No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Do you believe this? YES!

and

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe this?
Yes or no? YES! and that will never change.

Many have accused me of saying things that I did not but i expected that.

John 15:18:20;

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

Many people here make Paul superior to Christ , this is a serious matter and I ask you again, what did Paul add that Christ himself did not say or do?
Anyone can answer this one? Please quote scriptures in proper context.

Peace,

JF
Click to expand...
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

------> See Paul <------
 
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