Who is a Jew?

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awelight

awelight

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#861
Aug 10, 2020
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#861
Pilgrimshope said:
Zechariah tells us they do Repent:
10 “Then I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication, when they will look toward Me whom they pierced. They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son and grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for a firstborn.”

This doesn’t say all Israel repents it says God would give a spirit of grace and supplications through Jesus when he came

this part here you need to consider the context see

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

you are still trying to identify Israel by the flesh being born of Abraham’s flesh doesn’t make an Israelite

Israel that’s going to all be saved is thisnosrael Born here not of flesh but spirit

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬

they will all Be saved who turn to Christ and are born of the spirit that’s Gods israel it has nothing to do with the flesh and blood any longer when you wuote this verse here

“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, And shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if your identifying old testsment flesh israel your missing what he’s saying beforehand when he says

they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬

that information leads to the rest e first part is to understand israel is no longer identified by the flesh and blood that doesn’t make them the hiers of Abraham

They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:”


Being a flesh descendant of Abraham the Hebrew will save no one ever it didn’t even save them under the Old Testament

to be saved there is exactly one way for a Jew or gentile they have to repent of rejecting Jesus and accept him and his word of life

without doing that they nor anyone can be saved and that would make the. Christian’s not Jews Jews need to convert from Judaism to Christianity it’s to be saved many have before and many will ahead but no literally not everyone born of Hebrew blood is going to be saved everyone born of Christs blood will be though jew or gentile

first paul explains “ being born a an Israelite in the flesh doesn’t make you an Israelite then he says later all israel shall Be saved , we have to identify with the New Testament it’s the only salvstion

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

I can show you an Israelite by blood that’s lost proving that statement isn’t literal and identifiable by the flesh remember Judas ? Jesus said he was lost and he was an Israelite is he included in all israel ?
Click to expand...
I enjoyed your well organized and thoughtful post - however - I don't agree with your conclusion. I am not going to respond, in detail because I would have to write a book but would like to interject this thought.

The method of Salvation - whether it be Old Testament or New Testament age - is always the same. The Holy Spirit regenerated those being saved then and regenerates those being saved now. The Old Testament Saints, looked upon the things that foreshadowed the Person and Work of Christ and New Testament Saints look upon the Substance. What Israel, as a nation, failed to obtain - God's Election obtained it.

However, as to "office" and "purpose", there are distinctions. Israel is called God's WIFE, The Church is called the "Bride of the Lamb" - Israel is never called the Church and those who makeup the Church, are never called Israel. The Church, which Christ is building, was never publicly proclaimed in Israel - it was told, only, to those whom would make up it's body, (The one exception, was Judas - in order to fulfill prophecy).

Israel, is called the friends of the Bride Groom but not the Bride. The friends are invited to the Wedding Feast but they are not the subject of the Wedding.

Israel awaits, the physical restoration of the Kingdom (Acts 1:6), but the Church awaits the completion of the Bride and her Wedding to the bridegroom.

Israel awaits, for one to sit upon the Throne of David but the Church, as a Royal Priesthood, awaits the coming of our High Priest.

There are many other distinctions but one must stop thinking, of these things, in the mindset of Salvation. God's Election has obtained that, for Israel and the Gentiles:

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? That which Israel is seeking for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

The problem is simply this - if ones Eschatology is flawed, then they will not and cannot see this.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#862
Sep 2, 2020
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kaylagrl said:
Israel lost use of the land, but never the deed. God made an unconditional covenant and He will keep it.
Click to expand...
so his covenant isn’t what he said it is ? This condition he gave then after making his covenant doesn’t apply to his covenant ? This is t wha yes and tally written in the covenant as he gave it to them ?

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


your explaining that’s not really what the covenant says and that it’s somehow conditionless ?

And the covenant he made with them they broke it , that’s what you can’t seem to acknowledge and he said clearly “ if you break my covenant I will destroy you utterly from off the land I gave you and leave you desolate “

but you are telling me that’s not the condition his word isn’t what makes the covenant conditions ?

Do you even acknowledge gay there are two covenants made with israel in scripture ? The one They broke and we’re cursed by and the. The one he promised the Christ would make when he came ? Do you even acknolwedge that part ?

that he said I will make a new covenant not according to the one you’ve broken ?

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are you not able to acknolwedge it ? That they broke his covenant and that’s why Jerusalem was destroyed 2000 years ago and thier temple of worship ? And that God sent the new covenant out with the ones who got sent away after that ?

it’s like your not even acknolwedging what it says and just saying “ nope thats not true “

did israel break the covenant God made with them ? And did he promise to make a new one ?

if you can’t acknolwedge that part I won’t bother you anymore about it lol
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#863
Sep 2, 2020
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awelight said:
I enjoyed your well organized and thoughtful post - however - I don't agree with your conclusion. I am not going to respond, in detail because I would have to write a book but would like to interject this thought.

The method of Salvation - whether it be Old Testament or New Testament age - is always the same. The Holy Spirit regenerated those being saved then and regenerates those being saved now. The Old Testament Saints, looked upon the things that foreshadowed the Person and Work of Christ and New Testament Saints look upon the Substance. What Israel, as a nation, failed to obtain - God's Election obtained it.

However, as to "office" and "purpose", there are distinctions. Israel is called God's WIFE, The Church is called the "Bride of the Lamb" - Israel is never called the Church and those who makeup the Church, are never called Israel. The Church, which Christ is building, was never publicly proclaimed in Israel - it was told, only, to those whom would make up it's body, (The one exception, was Judas - in order to fulfill prophecy).

Israel, is called the friends of the Bride Groom but not the Bride. The friends are invited to the Wedding Feast but they are not the subject of the Wedding.

Israel awaits, the physical restoration of the Kingdom (Acts 1:6), but the Church awaits the completion of the Bride and her Wedding to the bridegroom.

Israel awaits, for one to sit upon the Throne of David but the Church, as a Royal Priesthood, awaits the coming of our High Priest.

There are many other distinctions but one must stop thinking, of these things, in the mindset of Salvation. God's Election has obtained that, for Israel and the Gentiles:

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? That which Israel is seeking for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:

The problem is simply this - if ones Eschatology is flawed, then they will not and cannot see this.
Click to expand...
“I am not going to respond, in detail because I would have to write a book but would like to interject this thought.”

why not just say “ I don’t like long posts “ Rather than the veil ?

I’m just going to do this and see if it helps

“The method of Salvation - whether it be Old Testament or New Testament age - is always the same.”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the New Testament that can save people the Old Testament shows us why we need to be saved in the first place it’s about this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament works opposite of that imputing of sin and began at Jerusalemwith Jesus teaching the apostles then sending them out to all
People

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭


That’s why the law was given that’s Israel’s old covenant the law of
Moses that says “ this is sin, you shalt not do this , or you will surely die “

It gives the knowledge of sin and makes a sinner guilty and condemns them , like this

“ this is sin do not do it “says Moses covenant law

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Or you will surely die “ says Moses law

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that cannot save a sinner it can only inform of and point out the sin , make the person aware of thier guilt and accuse and condemn the sinner to death.

this in John 8 with the adulterous woman caug he in adultery , could not have happened under the Old Testament law which is itself thier covenant it tells the All the rules and the. Says “ if you obey all
I commanded you youll Be blessed and dwell in the land I gave you “

But if you stray from my commandments and worship other gods I will utterly destroy and curse you until you are destroyed and consummed from off the land I gave your fathers.

a covenant is Simply an official agreement between two parties and a covenant has a mediator or a “ go between “ it’s based on what the greater says to the other he speaks it to the mediator , the mediator to the other covenant partner, the covenant partner agrees Like this


this was how thier covenant was given nite there’s always two parts God tells man what to do and know and trust in and the. Tells Man what he will do in response if they hear and believe his word

“And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old covenant made with israel through Moses never saved anyone even Moses does for a single transgression

salvstion writes God to be made flesh himself in the form of the son and to lay down his life to pay our debt to sin because of the knowledge of the law that says “ all Have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God , and so all are condemned by sin “

that’s why Jesus had to come and be a man and die to fulfill the word of death to sinners in the law for those who receive him

salvation was determined from Ten beginning but not re else’s until Jesus came born of a virgin like the prophets foretold , received the holy spirit like they said he would and told
Man out salvstion and offered man eternal Life

We can’t be saved by the Old Testament it lead us to the savior , we have to go to the gospel to be saved the ot was foretelling the gospel leading the world to Jesus where we have to be saved

I never agree with hypergrace doctrine I recognize from Joseph prince theology though just saying
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#864
#864
Pilgrimshope said:
so his covenant isn’t what he said it is ? This condition he gave then after making his covenant doesn’t apply to his covenant ? This is t wha yes and tally written in the covenant as he gave it to them ?

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


your explaining that’s not really what the covenant says and that it’s somehow conditionless ?

And the covenant he made with them they broke it , that’s what you can’t seem to acknowledge and he said clearly “ if you break my covenant I will destroy you utterly from off the land I gave you and leave you desolate “

but you are telling me that’s not the condition his word isn’t what makes the covenant conditions ?

Do you even acknowledge gay there are two covenants made with israel in scripture ? The one They broke and we’re cursed by and the. The one he promised the Christ would make when he came ? Do you even acknolwedge that part ?

that he said I will make a new covenant not according to the one you’ve broken ?

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are you not able to acknolwedge it ? That they broke his covenant and that’s why Jerusalem was destroyed 2000 years ago and thier temple of worship ? And that God sent the new covenant out with the ones who got sent away after that ?

it’s like your not even acknolwedging what it says and just saying “ nope thats not true “

did israel break the covenant God made with them ? And did he promise to make a new one ?

if you can’t acknolwedge that part I won’t bother you anymore about it lol
Click to expand...

Again we are still stuck with the covenant God made with Abraham,it is unconditional. lol It doesn't both me, I don't mind a good discussion. We're polite about it. So no worries. :)
 
awelight

awelight

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Aug 10, 2020
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Pilgrimshope said:
he doesn’t lie either

“I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your right he’s always going to do what he said when they rejected thier savior that finalized the curses written throughout the Bible in thier covenant promises of they broke his law the last Hope for thier covenant blessing was Jesus

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.


Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬ ‭

god gives and takes away it’s always based on what he says not what we want it to be

He delivered the. Into the land he promised and then Warned them that if they rebelled and defiled the land he would utterly destroy them from
Off the land he have them he set a very clear condition on them after he delivered his promise to Abraham for the land


“The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:21‬ ‭

everything g tv ate happened tokosrites since 600 bc is because of whats written in tbier law regarding the curses for breaking it he took the kingdom from them and offers it to anyone who will believe in jesus as they did not
Click to expand...
What does any of this, have to do with the FUTURE relationship of Israel? These are about her present state and do not refer to her unfulfilled promises. In regards to Salvation, there is yet a remnant to be saved:

Rom 11:4, 5 But what says the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul is clearly talking about a Jewish remnant. You keep talking about there being no distinction between Jew and Gentile but the Text clearly shows, there is no distinction in the body of Christ. Not that there is no distinction outside of Christ. Nor does it indicate, that there are not distinctions in the offices of the Kingdom.

There are twelve Thrones, seen in Revelation and twelve elders, sit upon these thrones. A distinction of office. The Lord said we will judge the twelve Tribes of Israel. Why the distinction here - if there are none?

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The bottom line is this - If you do not believe, there is going to be a thousand year reign of the Kingdom, upon the earth and in Jerusalem, before the eternal state - then there is no common ground for a discussion.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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kaylagrl said:
Dunt dunt dah!!! Plot twist! rofl Who saw that coming?! Then you should know all of this by heart. No one should need to explain to you the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham, or the promise actual land of Israel, or the persecution or the Jews down through the centuries. You should know about replacement theology and Gods plan and purpose for His chosen people. Why all this foolishness if you know all this?! smh
Click to expand...
I think we agree with you on most of this. I was just pointing out what the initial background was for the "hardening" of Israel. God did not smack poor innocent babes with a spiritual lobotomy without prior warning. Seeing the backdrop is important.

The last verse of the previous chapter sets the stage and states what came before the hardening...

Romans 10:21
“But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.”
 
J

jaybo

Banned
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Jun 5, 2020
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oyster67 said:
I think we agree with you on most of this. I was just pointing out what the initial background was for the "hardening" of Israel. God did not smack poor innocent babes with a spiritual lobotomy without prior warning. Seeing the backdrop is important.

The last verse of the previous chapter sets the stage and states what came before the hardening...

Romans 10:21
“But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.”
Click to expand...
Here is that verse in English: But about Israel he says, “All day long I held out my hands to this disobedient and stubborn people!” NET

Which cites Isaiah 65:2 ...
"I spread out my hands all day long
to my rebellious people,
who lived in a way that is morally unacceptable,
and who did what they desired." NET

As you see the quotations are different. Undoubtedly because Isaiah was written in ancient Hebrew but Paul was quoting from the Septuagint (the OT in Koine Greek).

BTW, Isaiah 65:2 in the KJV says "I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts"
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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kaylagrl said:
Israel lost use of the land, but never the deed. God made an unconditional covenant and He will keep it.
Click to expand...
I can accept that. But it is necessary to remember that not all Jews are the spiritual children of Abraham. These promises are for the loyal remnant. Many will come in at the end, I agree.
 
awelight

awelight

Well-known member
#869
Aug 10, 2020
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#869
Pilgrimshope said:
“I am not going to respond, in detail because I would have to write a book but would like to interject this thought.”

why not just say “ I don’t like long posts “ Rather than the veil ?

I’m just going to do this and see if it helps

“The method of Salvation - whether it be Old Testament or New Testament age - is always the same.”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the New Testament that can save people the Old Testament shows us why we need to be saved in the first place it’s about this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament works opposite of that imputing of sin and began at Jerusalemwith Jesus teaching the apostles then sending them out to all
People

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭


That’s why the law was given that’s Israel’s old covenant the law of
Moses that says “ this is sin, you shalt not do this , or you will surely die “

It gives the knowledge of sin and makes a sinner guilty and condemns them , like this

“ this is sin do not do it “says Moses covenant law

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Or you will surely die “ says Moses law

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that cannot save a sinner it can only inform of and point out the sin , make the person aware of thier guilt and accuse and condemn the sinner to death.

this in John 8 with the adulterous woman caug he in adultery , could not have happened under the Old Testament law which is itself thier covenant it tells the All the rules and the. Says “ if you obey all
I commanded you youll Be blessed and dwell in the land I gave you “

But if you stray from my commandments and worship other gods I will utterly destroy and curse you until you are destroyed and consummed from off the land I gave your fathers.

a covenant is Simply an official agreement between two parties and a covenant has a mediator or a “ go between “ it’s based on what the greater says to the other he speaks it to the mediator , the mediator to the other covenant partner, the covenant partner agrees Like this


this was how thier covenant was given nite there’s always two parts God tells man what to do and know and trust in and the. Tells Man what he will do in response if they hear and believe his word

“And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old covenant made with israel through Moses never saved anyone even Moses does for a single transgression

salvstion writes God to be made flesh himself in the form of the son and to lay down his life to pay our debt to sin because of the knowledge of the law that says “ all Have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God , and so all are condemned by sin “

that’s why Jesus had to come and be a man and die to fulfill the word of death to sinners in the law for those who receive him

salvation was determined from Ten beginning but not re else’s until Jesus came born of a virgin like the prophets foretold , received the holy spirit like they said he would and told
Man out salvstion and offered man eternal Life

We can’t be saved by the Old Testament it lead us to the savior , we have to go to the gospel to be saved the ot was foretelling the gospel leading the world to Jesus where we have to be saved

I never agree with hypergrace doctrine I recognize from Joseph prince theology though just saying
Click to expand...
I don't like long posts -- what a joke. You obviously, have not been falling my posts, if you think I don't like long posts.

Sadly, I would have appreciated you giving your beliefs, on my argument and giving us your thoughts, on the verses I used. In this way, we could have established a ground on which to discuss.

Soteriology, is not the primary subject under discussion. It is the future relationship of Israel to the Kingdom.

Like so many on this chat - you avoid the difficult points and just throw a lot of Scripture verses around. Since you already know it all, what is the point of having a discussion.

Mat_15:9 But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as their doctrines the precepts of men.

See -- I can through around Scriptures too.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#870
Sep 2, 2020
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113
#870
kaylagrl said:
Again we are still stuck with the covenant God made with Abraham,it is unconditional. lol It doesn't both me, I don't mind a good discussion. We're polite about it. So no worries. :)
Click to expand...
yeah look at what Paul says About when tbat covenant was finally established though it wasn’t through Moses or to a single nation of Israel

that’s my entire point please consider what Paul’s saying here out what your saying sister

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8, 14, 16, 26-29‬ ‭


Do you see what he’s saying and how wonderful the news is ?

He told Abraham “ you will be the father of many nations and in thy seed , shall all people of the earth be blessed “

And Paul is explaining that in Christ and the gospel this is being fulfilled , Abraham’s seed of promise Jesus , and those who believe the gospel and are baptized into his name are taking on the identity of the CHildren of Abraham and hiers of the promise your talking about genome he made to Abraham not abram but whe. He made a new covenant and named him Abraham father of many nations regarding the promise of Isaac after ishmael was born of flesh Isaac was promised and later born because God said it would happen just like Jesus

ishmael who was the first born in the flesh was cast out of Abraham’s house when Isaac was born but God had mad a seperate covenant because of ishmael being abrams son

ishmaels covenant was this for a single nation with twelve princes

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but it’s the son God promised that his everlasting covenant is with not ishmael

“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:19, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Isaac is a figure of Jesus who is the seed of promise of Abraham. It’s why the gospel begins establishing Jesus as the promised son of Abraham

What I’m saying g is the nation of Israel was born when God delivered them through Moses and the law out of Egypt and into the promised land . That’s not our covenant they broke that one me now the whole earth is going to be destroyed but they can all be saved with everyone else if they repent and accept that Jesus is the messiah the son of a rahams promise that’s how we become the seed of Abraham by faith and inherit the covenant given to Abraham

osraels earthly nation is. Ashes upon the law of
Moses it has nothing to do with the promise of Abraham blessing the nations through his seed that’s my entire point

the land of promise in Christ is here

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thier promised land will Be here because they rejected his warnings of it in thoer covenant law

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All of the salvstion God was promising osrael In tbe prophets is what the gospel is that coming to pass or being fulfilled they like anyone will
Have to let go of the old d embrace the new to be saved theyll
Have to hear and believe the gospel d accept the name of Jesus

we’re all the same now jew and non Jew only faith matters at this point the faithful in Christ sre a rahams seed and hiers of his covenant promise of eternal life and a promosed land that never dies or becomes corrupt like this world
 
oyster67

oyster67

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I hope no one here has been telling modern-day Jews that they do not have to come to Jesus, because they do. There is no other door and no other way.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
 
J

jaybo

Banned
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Jun 5, 2020
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#874
oyster67 said:
I hope no one here has been telling modern-day Jews that they do not have to come to Jesus, because they do. There is no other door and no other way.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Click to expand...
That is true. I was born a Jew and was Bar Mitzvah at age 13, then became an atheist when my life didn't change for the better. About thirty years later, Jesus healed me in the hospital and I became a Christian, which I am to this day.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#875
#875
oyster67 said:
I hope no one here has been telling modern-day Jews that they do not have to come to Jesus, because they do. There is no other door and no other way.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anyone say that here.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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kaylagrl said:
So the land of Israel is promised to the church?
Click to expand...
The Jewish part of the Church. The early Church was mostly Jewish, as I'm sure you know. God did not have nice things to say about those rejected His Son.

Luke 9:35
“And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”

A Jew does not necessarily become un-jewed when he or she bows down to Jesus. Jesus died for Jews just as much as for Gentiles.
 
G

Grandpa

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The_Watchers_2017 said:
Romans 11:28 As to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but as to the election they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes:

where's the REPLACEMENT in that?
Click to expand...
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

How do you think this is achieved???
 
J

jaybo

Banned
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Jun 5, 2020
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#880
oyster67 said:
The Jewish part of the Church. The early Church was mostly Jewish, as I'm sure you know. God did not have nice things to say about those rejected His Son.

Luke 9:35
“And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.”

A Jew does not necessarily become un-jewed when he or she bows down to Jesus. Jesus died for Jews just as much as for Gentiles.
Click to expand...
This is a confusing post. God has never had nice things to say about those who have rejected Jesus, whether Jew or Gentile. The ethnicity doesn't matter. Either one rejects Christ or they accept Him.

What does "un-jewed" mean? I have never heard that term before. I was born a Jew and am still a Jew. Jesus was a Jew, as were all the apostles and all the authors of the Bible (except Luke).

Romans 11:1, "So I ask, God has not rejected his people, has he? Absolutely not! For I [Paul] too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin."
 
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