HOW Were people SAVED...

...In Other Dispensations?


Much theological debate has ensued in recent years in regard to the
discipleship/Lordship salvation issue. Those who stand for free Grace
nobly contend that faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ
is the only requirement for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

They see clearly that works of righteousness, rituals, and law keeping
has nothing whatever to do with salvation in the present dispensation of
Grace (Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8-9). Now the question becomes, “Has this teaching
always existed or is this a unique provision for those under the present
Grace?...

...Paul is the only Biblical writer who speaks of faith without works (or the
law) for salvation. (See Acts 13:38-39; Rom. 3:20-22; 3:24,28; 4:5; 6-8,16; 11:6;
Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 3:9; Titus 3:5).

What were some of the works that God once required for acceptance and
salvation before the dispensation of Grace began? (Eph. 3:1-9).

Animal sacrifices—
Genesis 4:3-7; Hebrews 11:4; Exodus 12; 1 Corinthians 5:7.

Noah was commanded to build an Ark resulting in the saving of his
house (family) and causing him to become heir of the righteousness
which is by faith—Hebrews 11:7..." [etc, etc, etc...]

"...some would dispute that rituals or performances are really works...
"
(K Lawson)

FULL study:
How Were people Saved In Other Dispensations? (I)
How Were people Saved In Other Dispensations? (II)



GRACE And Peace...

The Scriptures are clear that salvation was by grace through faith in the OT. The best of men do not have pure righteousness. If Paul said it, even if he were the only one, he is inspired by the Holy Spirit so he knows.

"Abram put his faith in the Lord, who reckoned it to him as righteousness," (Gen 15:6, REB)

"My mouth will tell of thy righteous acts, of thy deeds of salvation all the day, for their number is past my knowledge. With the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD I will come, I will praise thy righteousness, thine alone." (Ps 71:15-16, RSV)

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isa 64:6, KJV)

"I can testify that they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened. For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." (Rom 10:2-4, NRSV) In some translations the meaning of the Greek behind "end" is very important - -

*"end" is the Greek "τέλος telos", and the BDAG defines it: "the goal toward which a movement is being directed, end, goal, outcome". Also see: "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Gal 3:24, KJV) The word "τέλος telos" is again used in this way later by Paul: "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:" (1Tim 1:5, KJV)
THE VERSE DOES NOT MEAN RIGHTEOUSNESS CAME BY LAW IN THE OLD COVENANT!

"Now, the promises were pronounced to Abraham and to his ‘issue’. It does not say ‘issues’ in the plural, but ‘your issue’ in the singular; and by ‘issue’ is meant Christ. My point is this: a testament, or covenant, had already been validated by God; a law made four hundred and thirty years later cannot invalidate it and so render its promises ineffective. If the inheritance is by legal right, then it is not by promise; but it was by promise that God bestowed it as a free gift on Abraham." (Gal 3:16-18, REB)

"Does the law, then, contradict the promises? Of course not! If a law had been given which had power to bestow life, then righteousness would indeed have come from keeping the law. But scripture has declared the whole world to be prisoners in subjection to sin, so that faith in Jesus Christ should be the ground on which the promised blessing is given to those who believe." (Gal 3:21-22, REB)

"The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases, his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is thy faithfulness. “The LORD is my portion,” says my soul, “therefore I will hope in him.” The LORD is good to those who wait for him, to the soul that seeks him. It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the LORD." (Lam 3:22-26, RSV)

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." (Matt 6:33, KJV)

OBEDIENCE WAS REQUIRED TO KEEP POSSESSION OF THE PROMISED LAND IN CANAAN! ETERNAL SALVATION WAS NOT BASED ON WORKS.

“OBEDIENCE WAS REQUIRED TO KEEP POSSESSION OF THE PROMISED LAND IN CANAAN! ETERNAL SALVATION WAS NOT BASED ON WORKS”

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how can you guys insist there’s some form of salvstion apart from wha ta always been written ? It’s always been there

If we don’t repent and start obeying thy gospel we’re in this group

unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

“indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; “

hat includes every living soul and it’s Paul writing it to the church lol how can you gracera come to a Bible discussion forum with the doctrine of ignoring the Bible and saying grace ?

This is the hypergrace doctrines and how it operates

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The hypergracers “ non thy ya t
Not true our works don’t apply we’re already forgiven we’ll never be judged by our own works well
Never receive Wes try and I dig action if we don’t repent and obey like Paul says in Roman’s

no Paul said “grace grace your saved “
Paul writes tonthe church who thinks that

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the hyoergracer “ no. I well never be judged by our works good and evil and no if our works are evil we’re saved still well Never receive jidgement and wrath no matter what we do our works mean nothing we’re already saved grace grace

Paul writes tonthe church

indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; “

That doesn’t apply to me says the hyoergracer my works will never matter I’ll never have to answer for my deeds
I’ve already inherited salvstion and the kingdom grace grace

Paul writes to the church who thinks that

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

but the hypergrace doctrine just says grace grace none of that applies nothing that’s really there in Paul’s writings is for us lol just the word grace and of course grace means “ I never have to repent and obey God now I have faith “

it would be comical if it wasn’t much of a blindfold

no matter how much we quote this verse

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭

it doesn’t change what’s in the same letters it all goes together without Jesus giving his life we couldn’t have been saved by any work that’s how grace saves us he makes it possible for us to accept hi gospel and be saved by his promises within it

One day every Christian will have to newer for thier own works whether good or bad if we are found as disobedient and contentious against his word , we’re going to receive whatnot says indignation and wrath , we can choose to repent d start learning to walk after the gospel d have our sins remitted but grace doesn’t change what happens to evil and what happens to good

grace doesn’t save satans children who chose to follow his Willit saves Gods children who are born believing they gospel and become disciples of Jesus trusting him as our lord and savior

what do you guys do just out of curiosity whe. You cross the pages of the Bible and see it repeated that we have to repent and can’t keep serving sin and expect the reward of faith ? Do you just say grace erases those verses or I can’t grasp how this grace term has convinced so many that Gods eternal and everlasting and unchanging word isnt for them or doesn’t apply to them ?

every soul of man covers us all and it seems to plainly say “ your going to face e eternal judgement of Christ according to what you have done , those who seek immortality d do good will receive glory and honor and eternal life


“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “


Those who contend and revel and refuse to repent and obey they will receive what Paul is saying to the church

unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

how come grace has to eliminate the rest of what Paul wrote in the same epistles in order to come to the conclusion our works have nothing to do with salvstion ? How do you reconcile it all just say grace and forget the word ? And say I’m saved we’re all saved grace grace ?

Old Testament saints.. were looking to the Messiah for salvation.. but their way of service to God was different.

The way of salvation though was being made righteous by God , not by works of righteousness. Abraham was declared righteous before offering up his son Isaac. David believed in a redeemer.. so did Job.

The problem was in the OT.. that people believed the animal sacrifices were making them righteous.. but they were not. They were saved by grace through faith.. but forgot that and thought their works could gain eternal life.

We HAVE to be saved by grace because there is nothing inheritenly good in people. That is the whole crux of the matter.

But the other main things are to do with being saved eternally and then daily deliverance.

Context determines which kind is being shown in the Bible.

Peace

“We HAVE to be saved by grace because there is nothing inheritenly good in people”

yeah that’s why we have to be born again, renewed in mind and heart that’s what saves us from our prior sinful nature we don’t get to carry the old sinner and his deeds with us we have to let go and be remade in our heart

yeah grace is what changes that this is how grace saves us

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace doesn’t save us by saying “ grace your saved now it doesn’t matter what you do because your inherently evil “

Grace teaches us to repent of doing evil and to do good in Gods sight in this life now

Because grace is not a word grace is what comes to those who believe the gospel

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we make grace just a word that Paul wrote about and reject the truth of Jesus words in the gospel well
Never learn repentance and righteousness

and then like your saying there’s not going to be any good in us because we’re rejecting the solution to the sin issue in us

Your right about men have to be saved by Gods true grace , Gods true grace is the gospel in it we learn this

“teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”

he’s redeeming hat issue of being sinful at heart and by our nature the word is what teaches us discernment and gives us the right judgement to be free from that slavery to sin that man fell into

your stopping at the part where Jesus can change us make us like new creations no longer bound and ruled by sin but free to choose good and walk after the true things

of grace is telling us “ your inherently evil “ that’s cruelly the law saying it , the gospel doesn’t call born again Christian’s evil ot says they are redeemed children of God given new minds and hearts set free from sins dominion

you’ve got the problem figured out why Jesus needed to come and die and teach us the truth from God , but your not allowing for what the gospel says bout us repenting and being strengthened and made right and how Jesus can change the evil in our heart by hearing and believing his word

grace is thy source of our salvation , grace doesn’t say “ now it doesn’t matter what you do your incapable of doing good “

it teaches us the importance of repentance and upright living while we wait for the lords return and makes us become willing and happy to do good and not willing and happy to do evil

there’s power in Gods word through Christ it does t leave us in a dungeon serving sin it breaks The door off the hinges and calls us to come out into the light of Christ

you aren’t allowing for the changing power of faith built on Christs word

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭

over time the gospel Ganges us from the incapable and ignorant of Gods word sinner , to children born anew in the gospel doctrine believing and letting that change us at our very core

I have no issue with this verse

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

(but I also accept this one )

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and I also want to understand Gods true grace like Paul is explaining in Titus 2 it teaches repentance and righteousness , and saves us through that process we have to hear Jesus in order tomlewrn anything real

Man was required to observe the law. If man transgressed the law, that man had to do the proper sacrifice to have his sins forgiven.

But the cross was hidden.

Man was required to observe the law. If man transgressed the law, that man had to do the proper sacrifice to have his sins forgiven.

Here's what the OT Jews were looking forward to:

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

The sacrifice is a picture of the Messiah. I would think the person was saved eternally aside from the act of animal sacrifice.

But their sacrifice would be counted as the right way of serving God in the OT

It’s a picture to us looking back, but for them, it was reality. Their sins were forgiven, but not washed away. Only the blood of Jesus can take away sin.

I used to be a dispensationalist. Then I came to the conclusion that I had not quite understood what many were meaning by the teaching. I've heard pastor's explain that there's a different spiritual walk with God in different, let's say periods of history all the way to different gospels. One was that we were going back to ceremonial ordinances and sacrifices in the millennium. There are various beliefs on this all over the map.
I don't agree with those teachings, but come to conclude that C.I. Schofield was an unbeliever, so I can reject his popular teachings. That actually simplified Bible reading and study and makes sense now.
In Genesis every one was saved by grace through faith, calling upon the Name of the LORD. In Revelation salvation was the same. The gospels provided the Savior named Jesus as prophesied in Genesis forward.
Never was the purpose of the law to merit salvation unless the person was able to be perfect. However, there are some who hold to that view that the law can save.

I'll post this perspective for those interested in the view that counters hyperdispensationalism.
Documentary...



https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/06docs/A_Dispensation_Of_Heresy.mp4

By faith, just like in this dis.


Hebrews 11
2For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


Genesis 15
3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

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