Dispensationalism...

I should have qualified my remark concerning Paul, when referencing the coming of the Lord, they do not quote Paul.

"Caught up ... " is no modern concept.

I have argued against a pre-tribulation raptured ... that IS a modern doctrine.

Revelations 20
1 Cor.15.

"for He must first reign until all rule and powers and authorities are put under His feet"

I see why i could not fined your quote it was not a quote., well at least KJ quote . Thank you

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

OR: believe The Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! Amen?

Dispensationalist do not rightly divide the Word that is why i left the deception of dispensationalism . That is a fact that is proven in these thread over and over. Not saying other theologies rightly divide the Word . Dispensationalist sure dont . They divide His people.

In your opinion is "rightly divided" the same or different than "sound exegesis"?

I don't understand what made you change your mind so totally in the other direction. I am trying to read along and keep up. Here we start at the beginning, the unconditional promise made to Abraham.

Gen 15
He also said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”
8 But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?”
9 So the Lord said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.”
10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other;

As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.

17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

In that moment God made an unconditional covenant with Abraham. God alone is the one responsible for keeping His promise to Abraham.

“Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered” (Hos. 1:10

“I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land” (Lev. 26:42

).


33 “Thus says the Lord God: On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt. 34 And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by. 35 And they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the Lord; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it.

“To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates”

This covenant was everlasting...

Gen 17 “The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.”

The promise was given to Isaac, Gen 26 and to Jacob 28.

“Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it” (Deuteronomy 30:4–5)


The Palestinian Covenant

1. God promised to gather the scattered Israelites from all over the world and to bring them back into the land He had promised to their ancestors

Deut 30 - then the Lord your God lwill restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will mgather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 nIf your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. 5 And the Lord your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it. oAnd he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.

2. God promised to regenerate the Israelites of that time and their descendants by circumcising their hearts so that they would love Him totally

Deut. 6 And pthe Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, qso that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

3.God promised to judge Israel’s enemies Deut.30 7 And the Lord your God will put all these curses on your foes and enemies who persecuted you.

4.He promised that the Israelites would obey God and that God would prosper them in their obedience. Deut. 8

God gave to Israel included everything from the Nile River in Egypt to Lebanon (south to north) and everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River (west to east). On today’s map, the land God has stated belongs to Israel includes everything modern-day Israel possesses, plus all of the territory occupied by the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

5 Thus says the Lord,

who zgives the sun for light by day

and athe fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,

who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—

bthe Lord of hosts is his name:

36 c“If this fixed order departs

from before me, declares the Lord,

then shall the offspring of Israel cease

from being a nation before me forever.”

37 Thus says the Lord:

“If the heavens above can be measured,

and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,

dthen I will cast off all the offspring of Israel

for all that they have done,

declares the Lord.”

I am using the tablet . Can't copy and paste... I will get to this tomorrow ...

Which Scripture says it is unconditional?

The manner in which the covenant was made. God passed through the halved animals while Abraham was asleep. Normally both people would pass through the animals to make a covenant.But God put Abe to sleep and made an unconditional covenant.

No, He didn't, He made an unconditional covenant with Abraham. It is everlasting.

For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.” 35Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day, who sets in order the moon and stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD of Hosts is His name: 36“Only if this fixed order departed from My presence, declares the LORD, would Israel’s descendants ever cease to be a nation before Me.”…

Romans 11, blinded until the Gentiles come in. No one said they will be saved any other way. They will come through Christ.

"In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:" - Gen 15:18 KJV

"And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." - Gen 17:7-8 KJV

"And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;" - Gen 26:4 KJV

"And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." - Gen 28:13-14 KJV

^ These are all Seed promises per Gal 3:16.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Gal 3:16 KJV

^ The Seed of the promises is Christ.

"If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [...] But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it." - Deut 30:4-5&17-18 KJV

Deut 30 is conditional AND requires the entire land to become a burning wasteland first.

"And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law [...] And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein [...] And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee " - Deut 29:21,23a & Deut 30:1

The whole land was never laid to waste, therefore Deut 30 could not have been triggered yet.

"Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever." - Jer 31:35-36 KJV

This actually happens in Revelation at the time of New Earth and New Heaven. This means that Israel as a nation isn't eternal. Any arrangement with a nation of Israel can't be eternal either.

"Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord." - Jer 31:37 KJV

God can do those things meaning the condition is met, therefore this line is actually saying that this is gauranteed to happen. It foreshadows the closure of the first covenant and the coming of the covenant of Christ. The only seed that could not be cast off per this clause is Christ, the Seed. Everyone else sinned.

You are right, the word "everlasting" means what it says, which is determined by the context.

From the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament on the Hebrew word olam -

1631a עוֹלָם (‘ôlām) forever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world, etc. (RSV similar in general, but substitutes “always” for “in the world” in Ps 73:12 and “eternity” for “world” in Ecc 3:11.) Probably derived from ‘ālam I, “to hide,” thus pointing to what is hidden in the distant future or in the distant past. The Ugaritic cognate is ‘lm, “eternity.”

Though ‘ôlām is used more than three hundred times to indicate indefinite continuance into the very distant future, the meaning of the word is not confined to the future. There are at least twenty instances where it clearly refers to the past. Such usages generally point to something that seems long ago, but rarely if ever refer to a limitless past. Thus in Deut 32:7 and Job 22:15 it may refer to the time of one’s elders. In Prov 22:28; 23:10; Jer 6:16; 18:15; 28:8 it points back somewhat farther. In Isa 58:12, 61:4; Mic 7:14; Mal 3:4, and in the Aramaic of Ezr 4:15, 19 it clearly refers to the time just before the exile. In I Sam 27:8, in Isa 51:9 and 63:9, 11 and perhaps Ezk 36:2, it refers to the events of the exodus from Egypt. In Gen 6:4 it points to the time shortly before the flood. None of these past references has in it the idea of endlessness or limitlessness, but each points to a time long before the immediate knowledge of those living. In Isa 64:3 the KJV translates the word “beginning of the world.” In Ps 73:12 and Eccl 3:11 it is translated “world,” suggesting the beginning of a usage that developed greatly in postbiblical times.

Jenni holds that its basic meaning “most distant times” can refer to either the remote past or to the future or to both as due to the fact that it does not occur independently (as a subject or as an object) but only in connection with preposi-tions indicating direction (min “since,” ‘ad “until,” lĕ “up to”) or as an adverbial accusative of direction or finally as the modifying genitive in the construct relationship. In the latter instance ‘ōlām can express by itself the whole range of meanings denoted by all the prepositions “since, until, to the most distant time”; i.e. it assumes the meaning “(unlimited, incalculable) continuance, eternity.” (THAT II, p. 230) J. Barr (Biblical Words for Time (’1969), p. 73) says, “We might therefore best state the “basic meaning” as a kind of range between ‘remotest time’ and ‘perpetuity’”. But as shown above it is sometimes used of a not-so-remote past. For the meaning of the word in its attributive use we should note the designation of the lord as ’el ‘ōlām, “The Eternal God” (Gen 21:33).

The LXX generally translates ‘ōlām by aiōn which has essentially the same range of meaning. That neither the Hebrew nor the Greek word in itself contains the idea of endlessness is shown both by the fact that they sometimes refer to events or conditions that occurred at a definite point in the past, and also by the fact that sometimes it is thought desirable to repeat the word, not merely saying “forever,” but “forever and ever.”

I underlined key point. This same word is used which is obviously not forever as dispensationalists claim it to be as in:

"Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.(Heb olam)" (Exod 21:6, KJV)

"This is my rest for ever(olam): here will I dwell; for I have desired it." (Ps 132:14, KJV)

The 1828 Webster's definition:
EVERL`ASTING, a. [ever and lasting.] Lasting or enduring for ever; eternal; existing or continuing without end; immortal.
The everlasting God, or Jehovah. Gen 21.
Everlasting fire; everlasting punishment. Mat 18:25.
1. Perpetual; continuing indefinitely, or during the present state of things.
I will give thee, and thy seed after thee, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession. Gen 17.
The everlasting hills or mountains. Genesis. Habakkuk.
2. In popular usage, endless; continual; unintermitted; as, the family is disturbed with everlasting disputes.

The Israelites have not possessed the land for 2000 years, so that does away with everlasting or forever. The thought that Israel lost the use of the land by disobedience, but not the deed is man-made nonsense.

You deal in half truths

We do not deny that Israel has stumbled ... but they have not fallen
we do not deny that blindness in part has come upon them ... until the fulness of the Gentiles are brought in
we do not deny that at present they are rejected ... but they will be accepted
we do not deny that at present they are cast away ... but they will attain to the fulness

As for when these things will be Jesus said "the times and seasons for these things are in the Father's hands" You argue against your own doctrines. You talk as though they can save themselves or do something that will save them.

You argue against predestination, salvation by grace alone, election. These fundamental doctrines of our holy faith you deny. For you imply that God chose them because they were righteous when we know Jacob was preferred to Esau before either had done anything good or evil ... before they rejected Christ.

You are flaunting yourself against them. Stop doing that.

You may have me on ignore. Because you could not stand that I withstood you. But your wrong in you assumption.

You have not proven anything, but that for us to turn and follow you we would have to ignore scripture. Twist scripture. and reject scripture

Which scriptures say it is conditional?

When God says I WILL. Or I GIVE. And asked for nothing in return. Is that unconditional?

Gen 12 - 15 - and 17 are but three..

If the abrahamic covenant is conditional. Then your salvation is conditional. And you have no hope