A Few of the Scriptures that Make me Post-Millennial

The Bible teaches this throughout the New Testament. As a matter of fact, all the saints who have passed on -- both OT and NT saints -- are presently in Heaven, within the New Jerusalem. And at the moment a believer dies, his or her soul and spirit go to Heaven. Since Jesus Himself said that that are many mansions in Heaven for His people, it follows that that is indeed our eternal home. So how can any genuine Christian object to that?

While C.H. Spurgeon was right in many things, he was also in error on many things. And he is "sadly in error" about the future literal kingdom of Israel under Christ. Indeed just one saying of Christ from Matthew 19:27,28 refutes him: Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Now how could Spurgeon have missed this? Christ was plainly telling His apostles that in His future Kingdom, the twelve apostles would literally sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. If that is not SOLID PROOF of a literal future kingdom of Israel on earth, then nothing is. When Jesus prefaces any saying by "verily" it means that this is absolutely true. It means "Truly, Truly" or "Amen, Amen".

Ethan, your vicious attacks against Dispensationalism actually PROVE that it is the best system of Bible interpretation. Only the truth gets attacked viciously! Quoting extensively from those who are in error does not help your position in the least. Just because the majority of commentators in the past were either Amillennial or Post-Millennial does not mean that they were right. It simply means that they were allowing others to influence their thinking, rather than going directly to the Bible to search out the matter.

Beckie, this just shows that great minds work alike! I probably read that somewhere and it stuck in the back of my mind. Or, as you said, when I read an article about the giant sequoias the parables of the mustard seed and leaven naturally came to mind. Then again, maybe our mature age gave us some wisdom too?

Satan was bound at the 1st advent and it was made sure at the resurrection of Christ? Does that match the beginning of the 1000 years of Revelation 20? How shall I study this out for my own satisfaction? I study as follows.

Jesus referring to himself in context as binding Satan states:
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house." (Matt 12:29, KJV)

That Greek word δέω deo, is the same word used in the following:
"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years," (Rev 20:2, KJV)

I have 5 parallel translations set on my computer Bible, after I use the KJV: RV, RSV, NRSV, REB & YLT. In Matt. 12:29 those translations "bind" three times and "tying up" twice. In Rev. 20:2 the parallels use "bound", "chained him up" and "did bind".

As to Satan being bound, there are similar passages: Luke 10:17,18; John 12:27, 31; 16:11; Col. 2:14, 15; 1 John 3:8 & Heb. 2:14

Rev. 20:3 states that after 1000 years Satan will be "loosed a little season" KJV. One of my parallel translations reads "be let out for a little while". The full verse reads:

"And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Rev 20:3, KJV)

The phrase "deceive the nations" in my parallel is: "deceive the nations", "seduce the nations" & "lead astray the nations".

I do not know of any Scripture that says "Satan was not bound", nor "Satan was not chained", or some such statement; so I know there is no contradiction in the Scripture, and believing in Holy Spirit authorship I did not expect to see a contradiction. So, how shall I deal with the various verses that caution the believer against Satan, as he is still an enemy of the saints to be guarded against?

The warnings about Satan are given to individuals and the assembly of Christ as a group. There has to be a difference between nations being deceived, and individuals or the church as a group needing to be wary of Satan. Before consulting commentaries, my first thought is, the kingdom grew and advanced though the Roman Empire, into Europe and into America. If Peter or Paul saw how the Bible and His church has produced such a wonderful civilization, I believe they'd surely think it was the golden age. Because I believe the 1000 years are the growth of the church from 1st to 2nd advents, I understand that Christ bound Satan at the cross/resurrection and the kingdom of God in this 1000 year symbolism is overcoming the world and will continue to do so until the end of time. Satan will be released for a little while, at the end of time. Is the old USSR, China and the spread of communism now the little season of Satan's release? Communism is certainly the enemy of God and his word the Holy Scriptures. It is a great danger. I do not know if we are in the "little season", so I cannot say we are approaching the resurrection and judgment. But, it keeps me alert.

I now go to the commentaries to see if I have gone off on a tangent, apart from men of God in history or even today.

John Trapp: bound "From the open slaughtering of the saints, as he had done by the heathen emperors; or, from molesting and mischiefing of God’s people"

M. Henry: "A prophecy of the binding of Satan for a certain term of time, in which he should have much less power and the church much more peace than before. The power of Satan was broken in part by the setting up of the gospel kingdom in the world; it was further reduced by the empire's becoming Christian"

The JFB: "He [Satan] had thought to destroy God's people on earth by Antichristian persecutions (just as he had thought previously to destroy Christ); but the Church is not destroyed from the earth but is raised to rule over it, and Satan himself is shut up for a thousand years in the 'abyss'"

Peter Pett: "In these passages we learn that Satan leads men astray, accuses them before God, tests them out, walks around like a lion seeking to devour men, is allowed limited powers against them, holds sway over unbelievers, hinders Christian activities and performs ‘lying wonders’. If he can act so, it may be asked, how can he then have been bound? As someone has sarcastically put it, ‘if he was bound, it was with a remarkably long chain’.

But this is to ignore the symbolism behind all this. The point is that Satan has been defeated, he has been chained in the abyss so that he cannot deceive the nations any more, and it is from there that he carries out his present activity, although in the end for a short time being allowed his final personal go at the world.

Thus Rev 20:1-3 is a brief summary of Satan’s defeat and ‘binding’ under God’s control in the period from the time of Jesus’ first coming to the second coming of Christ."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/pet/revelation-20.html

"Thus said Jehovah: Stand ye by the ways and see, and ask for paths of old, Where is this--the good way? and go ye in it, And find rest for yourselves. And they say, 'We do not go.' And I have raised up for you watchmen, Attend ye to the voice of the trumpet. And they say, 'We do not attend.'" (Jer 6:16-17, YLT)

I don’t think full or partial preterism is accurate. Personally I’m historic premil. Among many other reasons, probably one of the best reasons is that the wedding supper of the Lamb should include the entire church from the past, present, and future. If the wedding supper of the Lamb has already happened then there’s a massive problem. It basically means the “bride of Christ” has already come and gone. Leaving the question: who are we?

That’s why I think post-mil camp is way off on the school of thought concerning eschatology.

Revelation 19:9
9Then the angel told me to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

the implication of not being invited to this wedding supper is that there is no figurative marriage for you and me or anyone else now. That’s why I think this is a prophecy of a future event and certainly a historic premil perspective is accurate as far as I can tell.

Lets start his in Psalms 104 copied from biblehub.com

Verse 1.Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

He is honest, but in His majestic sense He can do what ever He so chooses.

Verse 2. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

He is the light; He created the heavens

Verse 3.Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Walks on the wings of the wind. Who can walk in the spirit which is the wind; ruach The Hebrew ruach means “wind,” “breath,” or “spirit.” We do not get to see into that detention unless God allows it. 2nd Kings 6:And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 17And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. That army is still here today and ready to fight for us.


Palms 104:4 Who maketh His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming fire: Angles; Spirits. He makes them as the wind (the ruach: the spirit) His ministers of flaming fire that is a whole study in its self. Within them you will understand why God chose some before the foundation of this earth age which as about 6,000 years ago; BUT only the foundation of this earth age.

That is why it is written in Eph. 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: How could He do that? Because we were His children even then.

Where does your soul come from? It comes from God. You may be asking you mean I lived before. You just answered the question if you believe your soul comes From God. I am not in any way, shape or form talking about reincarnation. Upon conception God put the soul, spirit, of that person in that new creation. How else could He say I knew you before you were in your mothers womb; or Upon death the spirit returns to God who gave it. It is not out here in some hole in the ground. Getting off subject here.

We will discover the great overthrow at the foundation of this earth age, what caused it,and then you can begin to understand your fathers word in more depth and clarity. You will begin to understand the Kings and Queens of this earth age; and hose that earned the right to be called God's elect.

Ps. 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

The ages will change there will be 3 of them but the earth the planet will remain. With the limited space travel with the space telescopes we can see and understand that this is a very special planet indeed. God placed it here in its proper orbit for many reasons climate, etc. In the first earth age Genesis 1:1 it was perfect when the earth was shielded with its firmament. He left a bit of that firmament and we call it the ozone.

Verse 6. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Now, what this is saying here, is that God created the earth and the earth stood out of the water as it is written in other places. But because of the (Tohu wa-bohu) We will cover this phrase in more detail as we move along in this study. It means that the earth became void and without form; NOT that it was created void and without form. Why did it become void and without form? Because of Satan's first rebellion.

In the Greek there is a verb kataboles. You can find it in Ephesians 1 verse 4. [the] foundation
καταβολῆς (katabolēs)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 2602: From kataballo; a deposition, i.e. Founding; figuratively, conception.

We will document all this from Gods word if you will stay with me. It is going to take the better part of this week. I ask that you ask God for an open mind, heart, ears and mind.

I have never really understood rpetrib, midtrib, posttrib & panmillenialest. The bible says that Satan comes at the 6th trump sets himself up as God proclaiming to be god then the 7th trumpJesus returns will destroy Satan ans set up the millennial kingdom rule or a 1000 years then God comes to earth with His throne we have the white throne of judgment and the eternity begins.

Show me the scriptures.

These things are inferred. The Bible doesn't say we go to be in the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem may be the bride in the vision.

The New Testament language about the afterlife refers to the resurrection. Moderns like to talk about 'going to heaven when you die.'

In Revelation, the New Jerusalem descends out of heaven. Why would you think the mansions remain in heaven?

Nehemiah you are right on the money.
Nehemiah you tell them the truth and keep telling it God will back you up.
Ecc. 12:6&7

Berean Study Bible
Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is crushed, before the pitcher is shattered at the spring and the wheel is broken at the well,

King James Bible
Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Berean Study Bible
before the dust returns to the ground from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

King James Bible
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes ,sounds good

Psalm22:27-30

Runningman, as I've stated several times, I consider historic pre-mil, a-mil and post-mil views that genuine and sincere Christians have held down through the years, so I do not fall out with anyone on these views. My concern is with the modernistic idea of dispensationalism. But as to your thought on Rev. 19:7-9, I'll offer the following quote from David Clark.

David S. Clark, Message from Patmos:
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/dsc/revelation-19.html

"Verses 7-10
In verses seven to nine we have something said about the marriage of the Lamb. But there is no marriage scene shown us either by vision or description. The things particularly stressed in this passage are the apparel of the bride, and the blessedness of those called.

The bride of Christ in Scripture phraseology, is the church. Her apparel is her righteousness. "To her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

It is the purpose of God and the care of the church to produce a holy people, fitted by grace to be the bride of the Lamb. This moral purity, this fine linen of righteousness is the thing that bulks in the revelator's eye, and not a nuptial scene. The church must make herself ready; but the readiness consists in her moral purity. Her readiness does not consist in a curiosity as to when Christ shall come, but in the righteousness which is of God by faith, and all its spiritual results."

Clark was post-mil and approached Revelation from a preterist perspective. His commentary has made more sense to me than any I ever read, so I'll let him comment on your statement.

Not in a sense of debate, but serious biblical discussion, how do you understand the underlined words in the following passages, which are repeated in chapter 22?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to shew unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." (Rev 1:1-3, ERV)

Those words and the wording of Rev. 11:1,2 force me to take a preterist view of Revelation and a date prior to 70 AD, though I know it is a minority view in the history of the church.

Do you think Revelation shows some things that must 'shortly come to pass'.... and some other things? Has the resurrection after the 1000 years occurred, and has the New Jerusalem descended?

I believe that chapters 1-3 are introduction and letters to the churches, then existing. Chapters 4-11 I believe prophecy the destruction of the temple and the end of the Jewish state. Chapters 12-19 are the fall of Rome. I see in chapter 20 the millennium, which I believe exists now and the general resurrection and general judgment are future to us on "the last day". So, I do believe Revelation was written prior to 70 AD. I follow the commentary by David S. Clark because it makes more sense to me in plain language and using so much symbolism that comes from the OT. Having the early background in dispensationalism and input from people like Jack Van Impe and Hal LIndsey. I had to reject all of that fanciful reading into the wording of Revelation from those type guys.

I believe it may have been you, Presidente who brought up the question Communism in our world today. I do wonder if as a post-mil, are we in the little season when Satan is released? I'll go so far as to say I believe there are similarities in the judgments of God, so though I believe Matt. 24:1-35 and the parallel gospels are about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, I'd not be surprised if a lot of similar things will happen in that "little season" prior to resurrection and judgment. Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah, so I do think in a way history God's judgment have some similarities.

So, to clarify, you believe only certain things in the book of Revelation were to shortly come to pass, but not others'

That seems like a Jack-Van-Impe-esque version of a post-mil interpretation. The world wasn't majority Christian before the Communists took over was it?


I'll go so far as to say I believe there are similarities in the judgments of God, so though I believe Matt. 24:1-35 and the parallel gospels are about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, I'd not be surprised if a lot of similar things will happen in that "little season" prior to resurrection and judgment. Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah, so I do think in a way history God's judgment have some similarities.[/QUOTE]

An article in the Oxford Study Bible - REB reads:
"Although people taught to read English can easily read this Revised English Bible, if they were to do so as though it were a modern English text coming out of contemporary social experience, they would be seriously mis-reading the ancient narratives, laws, letters, and poetry produced by the ancient authors and editors and understood by the first audiences of the Bible."

When I read prophecies such as from Isaiah, I am trying to visualize that time period, about 700 BC, 2700 years ago, and how I'd view my surroundings and the prophecies of Isaiah. I keep in mind the symbolism of the prophecies. If I could fast forward Isaiah from 700 BC to this day, I'm sure he'd think this must be the golden age he saw coming. Men's lives being extended by organ transplants, even the heart plus the hospitals, orphanages and nursing homes, etc. The gospel message is heard in every nation and country in the world, either through the Internet or shortwave radio, plus the printed page. Bible study even into the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible is possible for the ordinary man with all the helps available online. Could Isaiah imagine boarding some large metal vehicle that flies high in the air and be on the other side of the world in 24 hours? So, I can imagine Isaiah believing this is the Golden Age, which is how I view the Messianic kingdom growing over time. Yet, I too am thinking from my perspective and I do not know if maybe there is another 1000 years to play out before the 2nd advent. But even today I can see what marvelous advancements have happened. Is the spread of Communism even into our schools and universities the "little season" of Satan's release, or is this a period of judgment upon the nations and there is revival and many more years to come?

If Revelation was written about 68 AD as some think, that section about the destruction of the temple and the Jewish state happened in just a few short years. Then about the fall of Rome, one quote online gives it like this:

"The date at which one starts or ends a Fall of Rome timeline is subject to debate and interpretation. One could, for example, start the decline as early as the second century CE reign of Marcus Aurelius' successor, his son Commodus who ruled 180–192 CE. This period of imperial crisis is a compelling choice and easy to understand as a starting point.

This Fall of Rome timeline, however, uses standard events and marks the end with British historian Edward Gibbon's conventionally accepted date for the fall of Rome at 476 CE, as described in his famous history entitled The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire."
https://www.thoughtco.com/fall-of-rome-short-timeline-121196

Therefore I see Revelation chapters 4-19 are already accomplished, and shortly after the revelation given to John, and we look forward to the resurrection.

So, the return of Jesus Christ may be later today or it may be 1000 years from now. The resurrection and judgment of Revelation 20 are yet to come.