Jesus put people into 2 groups, Eunuchs and NOT Eunuchs

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JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#1
Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it. ...Matt 19:11-12.

Don't let any church or Christian talk you into being something you're not called for. Too many churches are calling for singles to be Eunuchs.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:9 "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. " Don't try to be something you're not. Churches should stop trying to group all singles in the same group. They should have 2 groups of singles, Eunuchs and NOT Eunuchs.
 

JohnB

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#2
If they try to push you into only group dating, no hugging or kissing, Tell them I'm NOT a eunuch. Jesus and Paul said so.
 
Sep 15, 2019
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#3
I would say if your church is trying to convert you into a eunuch, find another church. Even the Judaisers were like 1000 times less extreme, and Paul wrote the whole book of Galatians condemning them.
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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#4
Don't let any church or Christian talk you into being something you're not called for.
I agree. By the same token, don't let any church or person talk you into marrying if you are called to remain unmarried and celibate.


When Paul said a man should marry if he can't control himself, he didn't mean that should be the only reason to marry. A marriage that's not blessed by the Lord and only entered into for sexual gratification will end in disaster, guaranteed.
 

JohnB

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#5
I agree. By the same token, don't let any church or person talk you into marrying if you are called to remain unmarried and celibate.


When Paul said a man should marry if he can't control himself, he didn't mean that should be the only reason to marry. A marriage that's not blessed by the Lord and only entered into for sexual gratification will end in disaster, guaranteed.
This is why many years ago I railed against the book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris. His book was total legalism. Many in the church took his book as gospel. It's like they never read the book of Galatians . Recently he apologized for his books, said he was wrong, he divorced his wife and left Christianity. Yet some Christians still praise his books. It's like Satan planted a seed and some Christians still water it.
 

JohnB

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#6
Interesting nowhere in 1 Corinthians 7 did Paul call the sexual desires sinful. Neither did Jesus. Both called for marriage to control the desires. The purity movement made just having the desires a sin and telling you to repent of it. The purity movement did a lot of damage to young people in the church. Jesus and Paul were clear to control those desires you should get married. Remember over time those desires will lessen and it will be a loss for you and your spouse.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#7
Jesus put people into 2 groups, Eunuchs and NOT Eunuchs

:rolleyes:.....:oops:... Jesus put thread titles into 2 groups........ (y) and :alien:.
 

JohnB

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#8
Jesus put people into 2 groups, Eunuchs and NOT Eunuchs

:rolleyes:.....:oops:... Jesus put thread titles into 2 groups........ (y) and :alien:.
So NOT Eunuchs are evil? LOL
 
Sep 15, 2019
9,989
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#9
Interesting nowhere in 1 Corinthians 7 did Paul call the sexual desires sinful. Neither did Jesus. Both called for marriage to control the desires. The purity movement made just having the desires a sin and telling you to repent of it. The purity movement did a lot of damage to young people in the church. Jesus and Paul were clear to control those desires you should get married. Remember over time those desires will lessen and it will be a loss for you and your spouse.
I'm not sure what the purity movement taught (other than refraining from sex until marriage - which is good and expected for Christians), but I do remember reading or learning about "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris, and thinking at the time that he sounded somewhat like a hypocrite.

I agree that often, some Christians consider attraction or a desire to marry to be "lust", and demonise it as sinful and adultery. To me, that's as absurd as saying a desire for food is gluttony. Jesus said, "he who looks lustfully at a woman commits adultery" - some versions, "he who looks at a woman to lust over her commits adultery". To my thinking, lust is selfish, and totally different to enquiring or pursuing a relationship with the aim of a mutually beneficial marriage and children. Also, adultery requires the woman (or man) to be married.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#10
I'm not sure what the purity movement taught (other than refraining from sex until marriage - which is good and expected for Christians), but I do remember reading or learning about "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris, and thinking at the time that he sounded somewhat like a hypocrite.

I agree that often, some Christians consider attraction or a desire to marry to be "lust", and demonise it as sinful and adultery. To me, that's as absurd as saying a desire for food is gluttony. Jesus said, "he who looks lustfully at a woman commits adultery" - some versions, "he who looks at a woman to lust over her commits adultery". To my thinking, lust is selfish, and totally different to enquiring or pursuing a relationship with the aim of a mutually beneficial marriage and children. Also, adultery requires the woman (or man) to be married.
At the Calvary Chapel I went to they were teaching no physical contact until after marriage. Couples would kiss holding their hands over their mouths. In the Singles group one night, they held up a couple as showing purity by promising not to even hold hands until they were married.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#11
I dare somebody to try this logic with a married woman. "Oh, we're just fooling around, it's not adultry". (Don't do it, you will end up dead in the gutter somewhere, probably)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#12
Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it. ...Matt 19:11-12.

Don't let any church or Christian talk you into being something you're not called for. Too many churches are calling for singles to be Eunuchs.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:9 "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. " Don't try to be something you're not. Churches should stop trying to group all singles in the same group. They should have 2 groups of singles, Eunuchs and NOT Eunuchs.
context is important of this. What did Jesus say this?


Mathew 19: the text

3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

The question: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”


The answer : 4 And He answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”


second question: Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”


the Answer:

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”




After Jesus said this, the Disciples said: 10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”


Jesus then answered:


But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”


This is in context to what Paul said1cor 7:

7 Now, concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.




Paul, as Jesus is saying, You need to have self-control and serve the Lord and do the Kingdom work, BUT not all can do this and find themselves needing women, so don't give pace to the devil. Find a woman you want to marry but in the meantime, pray and do the work unto the Lord.


The Pharisees asked the question to try and trap the Lord to make him seem unreasonable. They would divorce for any reason. and used the Law of Moses to do so.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#13
context is important of this. What did Jesus say this?


Mathew 19: the text

3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

The question: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”


The answer : 4 And He answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

second question: Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”


the Answer:

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”



After Jesus said this, the Disciples said: 10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”


Jesus then answered:

But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”


This is in context to what Paul said1cor 7:

7 Now, concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.



Paul, as Jesus is saying, You need to have self-control and serve the Lord and do the Kingdom work, BUT not all can do this and find themselves needing women, so don't give pace to the devil. Find a woman you want to marry but in the meantime, pray and do the work unto the Lord.


The Pharisees asked the question to try and trap the Lord to make him seem unreasonable. They would divorce for any reason. and used the Law of Moses to do so.
The problem with the purity movement and some churches is they place such severe restrictions on dating they make is almost impossible to know about the person you're interested in. They act more like Pharisees when it comes to anyone dating.
 

birdie

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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#14
Thanks JohnB. You do a good job of explaining how some groups' rules can cause problems in understanding. If a person who is not a eunoch (perhaps the majority of men) think that there is something wrong with them for wanting to date and marry, and for wanting to hug or kiss as they get to know a person, they might feel that God has something against them (since they have those desires), when he does not apparently. Dating (however that is meant, including modestly intimate time) and marriage seem to be the solution, though I am no expert.
 

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#15
Thanks JohnB. You do a good job of explaining how some groups' rules can cause problems in understanding. If a person who is not a eunoch (perhaps the majority of men) think that there is something wrong with them for wanting to date and marry, and for wanting to hug or kiss as they get to know a person, they might feel that God has something against them (since they have those desires), when he does not apparently. Dating (however that is meant, including modestly intimate time) and marriage seem to be the solution, though I am no expert.

The church and Christians need to understand, your sex drive in at it's highest in your 20's and 30's. The longer you wait for marriage, the less it will be in later years. It does diminish as the years pass. This is one reason at the time of Jesus people married young. When the sex drive was high. It had nothing to do with them not living long as we do now.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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#16
The problem with the purity movement and some churches is they place such severe restrictions on dating they make is almost impossible to know about the person you're interested in. They act more like Pharisees when it comes to anyone dating.
I think the issue is the lack of teaching proper dating in light of a worldly perception. I think what the church needs to do is define what dating is not and use the world's examples like:

1. ladies, you do not need to look like Beoneca to get a man to take you on a date. FYI she can't even keep her man faithful.
2. do not