Is faith a work?

Jesus is saying in John 6:29 that believing in Jesus Christ is the work of God, He said this is the work of God and not this is the work for God. Hes directing their attention to God, not themselves.

For a person to believe in the True Jesus Christ, it takes the work of God in them, we believe according to the mighty working of God Eph 1:19

19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power

Thank you for responding to my question.

I agree with your answer. You did a nice job of expounding upon your thoughts. At your first post, I thought you were suggesting that we throw out all reasoning and that would make no sense. The subject of reasoning, must be looked at in a twofold manner. First, as you so well brought out, the natural man cannot, of his own reason, discern the spiritual things of God or His Word. Because, the natural man is dead - spiritually speaking - his spirit is inoperative. A casualty of the Fall. However, once the natural man is Regenerated by the Holy Spirit and is indwelt by the same, the Spirit works with our spirit and aids our reasoning. This allows us, as a believer, to weave the tapestry of God's Words. Putting precept upon precept and line upon line:

Isa 28:10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.

After the believer is indwelt, by the Holy Spirit, he is capable of discerning the Truth and capable of loving the Lord his God with all his mind. A requirement, so says Jesus Christ:

Mat 22:37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.

So I agree with you, a natural man's reasoning is useless. It will only discern what is Humanistic in it's nature. The Regenerated mind, has "good" reasoning restored and functioning properly.

On a different subject, if you truly want to be a good student of Scripture, I would caution on the use of Bible translations that are more "interpretations" than translations. The so-called translation you gave, in your post, is an interpretation of the Greek, not a translation. Compare what you gave from iBelieve.com to the King James or American Standard Version.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. (KJV)
Col 2:7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. (ASB)

In the iBelieve.com version, the single word "rooted" was shown to be: "Let your roots grow down into Him..." that is an interpretation not a translation and a potentially dangerous one. (I will show you why in a moment) Many of the modern Bibles, have moved away from pure translation to interpretational texts - the thinking? To makes the Bible easier to understand. In reality, it adulterates the Word of God. Let me expound on this error more.

The word translated "rooted", is the Greek word: ἐρριζωμένοι from the root word: ῥιζόω, which in the English means: to root. It is a PERFECT, PASSIVE, PARTICIPLE. The "Perfect tense", (Which does not occur in the English language.), places the action of the verb in the past and the results continue on through the present and into the future. The "Passive voice", denotes that this action, carried out in the past, was carried out by another and you were the recipient of it. If you were the cause of it or the action of the verb, then the voice would be "active". This is how they interpreted the word "rooted". Something you need to do - when the Greek clearly teaches, this is something done to you.

When we encounter the "Perfect tense" in the Bible, it should be translated with "has been or having been" in front of the verb. In this way, the past action is emphasized in the English language translation. Thus, Col. 2:7, should have started out like this:

Col 2:7a Having been rooted and being built up in him....

Not trying to correct you. just trying to help.

Yet if a person takes credit for their own faith, and say, that's why God saved me, because I exercised or put my faith in Jesus Christ, then that becomes salvation by your works. There can only be a contrast of faith vs works, when it can be acknowledged that faith in salvation isn't of ourselves but the Gift of God. Faith accompanies Salvation by Grace

So are we at election for who is saved and who is not saved?

I dont understand. So did you understand the post point I made ?

Choosing to believe in Christ is a matter of decision and effort though. How else would someone believe someone rose from the dead and as ascended to heaven? Just my thinking.

1 Corinthians 1:18-21
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

runningman

Right and that makes it a work!

So is it your work naturally or a work that was by the regenerating grace of God ? Scripture states we believe by grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

That word through means because of, them who believed in Jesus because of grace. Grace here is regenerating grace the gift of God.

Faith comes to us from God, when we hear Him; Faith is a noun


Believe is verb, it is the action we do in response to hearing God.


Believe corresponds to obey, and is used interchangeably with believe.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


Obeying what we hear God say, is how our faith is activated, or made “alive”.


Without the corresponding act of obedience to what God speaks to us, our faith is dead; the way a body without the spirit is dead.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26


Contextually the “works” James is referring to is obedience.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

Abraham obeyed the word of the Lord, by offering his son Isaac on the altar.


This principle is called the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26



Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.




JLB

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is the substance of belief. Faith is generated by belief. It is the proverbial Mona Lisa or Thinking Man, the artwork of the artist.

So we couldn’t have the faith unless we hoped in the first place.

While this seems to be the general opinion of many believers, it is nonetheless a FALSE one.

How much "effort" is involved in making any kind of decision? None. The Bible uses "effort, work, deed, etc" to denote physical kind of work. It may take a lot of effort on the part of some to add 2 + 2, but that's still not work in the biblical sense.

Paul was clear when he contrasted "work" from faith" in Rom 4:4,5. There, work creates an obligation, such as a paycheck. iow, the person who works gets paid.

Nowhere in the Bible is salvation depicted as a payment for "services". In fact, the word "grace" means unmerited favor. iow, salvation is NOT by doing stuff for God. And that doesn't include thinking, which is what trust, belief, faith really is.

When a person trusts someone, there isn't any necessary outward evidence of that trust. There may be, but it isn't necessary.

No one gets paid for trusting in another.

And just to clear up for the readers, in John 6:29, Jesus was using tongue-in-cheek when He told the Jews that "the work of God is to believe in His Son". Again, believing is NEVER portrayed in the Bible as a work that earns something.

YES, at the moment of faith in Christ, God DOES save that person. But it is by grace (Eph 2:8) and not by an obligation that the believer puts on God.

If one wants to discuss obligation regarding salvation, look no further than God Himself. It is God who created and executed the plan of salvation for the human race. And that plan includes His promise to "save those who believe".

So when an unbeliever hears the gospel message, and BELIEVES it, God has obligated Himself to save that believer.

In no way does the Bible portray belief as forcing God to save the believer, if He might not otherwise do it.

Satan has had roughly 6,000 years to screw up the plan of salvation. He is the ultimate deceiver. And he has been very effective at it.



How else would someone believe someone rose from the dead and as ascended to heaven? Just my thinking.

1 Corinthians 1:18-21
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.[/QUOTE]

runningman said:

Choosing to believe in Christ is a matter of decision and effort though.
See what I mean!!

There you go! The Greek word for "hope" in the NT means "confident expectation". So yes, you don't have faith unless you are confident of whom you have placed your faith in the first place.

Faith certainly is the substance of the thing we hope for.

[/QUOTE]Faith is the substance of belief.
Faith is generated by belief.

I believe your conclusion was "...when it can be acknowledged that faith in salvation isn't of ourselves but the Gift of God..."

What I see is you're saying faith is a gift of God. However, not everyone receives the gift, but your premise is that we can't take credit for our own faith. But God's will is all come to repentance. It seems like we need to be involved in this process somewhere unless you're sorta subtlety referring to Universalism.

Based off that, I concluded you're basically saying God elects who is saved and isn't. Is that accurate? If not, please let me know.

It seems opinion on this is quite diverse. Do you think Jesus was using irony in John 6:28,29?

No. Faith is a noun. Believing is a verb.

Faith is WHAT we believe. That's the difference. If one believes in something, they HAVE faith in it. There is nothing "generated".

Believers need to get their terminology correct.

Belief doesn't generate anything.

What do you "generate" when you trust something or someone? See how silly that sounds?

The truth is that faith and salvation is given to us as a free gift through Jesus Christ. It's by faith we are saved and not by our works. We can't and didn't do anything to earn or merit our salvation. However, now that we are saved and in faith, that faith has to be maintained. The work of faith is that it has to be maintained and not lost. This work is not by our own strength but by the power of the Holy Spirit or the strength of God, by prayer or communication with God, by reading God's Word. We need to do all these and more to keep our faith intact but it's not by power or by might but by the Spirit of God. I hope this helps.

All this is true EXCEPT the comment about faith being a gift. It isn't a gift. That would mean God chooses who will believe, which is unbiblical. Rom 10:10 tells us where our believing comes from; the heart. Not from God.

If faith is a gift from God, there is no reason to evangelize. God WILL give the gift to those He has chosen anyway. So even though the Bible commands believers to share their faith, there is no need, IF IF IF faith is a gift.

Because IF IF IF God doesn't give that gift, no manner of evangelization will be effective. It would be just a big waste of time.

The VERY REASON the Bible tells believers to share their faith is because

Rom 10-
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

This is how evangelization works:
1. people CAN'T believe IF they haven't heard. V.14
2. people CAN'T hear IF there is no preacher to hear.
3. people CAN'T believe unless a preacher is sent.

Since Jesus clearly taught that some believers only "believe for a while, and in time of testing/temptation, fall away" in Luke 8:13. Would you say that the Holy Spirit simply failed to keep those believers strong in their faith?

I can't help because it isn't biblical. It's in fact dangerous, false doctrine. Just what Satan wants believers to believe.

Salvation is permanent because Jesus taught that those who believe POSSESS eternal life (John 5:24). Then, in John 10:28, He said that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So, from the MOMENT one believes, they POSSESS eternal life and SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Jesu taught eternal security very clearly. This is not refutable.

The problem is that believers have a lot of their own opinions about it. But none that are biblical.

Those who think their idea IS biblical that salvation can be lost, are simply at direct odds with the Lord Jesus.

So this is very serious and dangerous to be in that position.

As to your direct question, if I may - Does God elect who is to be saved. Yes He did. Election was made from eternity before the world began.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

Are there many diverse opinions on this subject? You bet. One of the hardest truths of Scripture to accept is God's Elective Grace. Why? Because it places God as Sovereign overall and the natural man hates that. So too, a babe in Christ who has yet to learn this fundamental truth. So you would expect a wide range of thoughts on this subject. Most, if not all, coming from those who hate this doctrine. However, the truth behind Scripture, OT and NT, is God chooses. Just look at the history:

God chose to create.
God planned, from all eternity, to redeem His Creation from the fall before the fall ever took place.
God chose those to salvation, in His Son, before the foundation of the world.
God chose Abram to become Abraham.
God chose Israel as His nation from among the nations.
God chose Moses to set His people free. Moses didn't even want the job.
God chose the Prophets of old for their time and task.
God chose the moment for which His beloved Son would be revealed in the flesh.
God chose the exact moment when Jesus would be crucified and raised again.
God knows because He chose the exact time of His Son's return.

Knowing these things... why should it surprise anyone, that God Elected individuals, both Jew and Gentile to Salvation in His Son and "passed by" the rest. Does not God, have the right to have a hand in the "love gift" given to His Son for all eternity? Does not even an earthly father have a right to except or reject his future son-in-law? However, we as earthly fathers are not sovereign over our daughter but God, the Father, is totally Sovereign over His Eternal Plan.

Look at these verses and consider what they teach:

All things are done for the Elect's sake:
2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Scripture is written for the Elect:
1Pe_1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
God justifies the Elect:
Rom_8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies;
Those who try to deceive - try to deceive even the Elect:
Mar_13:22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
The instructions are to God's Elect:
Col_3:12 Put on therefore, as God's elect, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, longsuffering;
God's Elect are being brought up to be a special people:
1Pe_2:9 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
Individuals are addressed as Elect:
2Jn_1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all they that know the truth;
2Jn_1:13 The children of thine elect sister salute thee.
The times will be shortened - near the end - because of the Elect:
Mark 13:20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
It is the Elect of God who will be gathered from all over:
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So yes, God Elected/Chose His own to salvation and passed by the rest. Now the next question is: Why did God have to Elect?

Calvinist error. God chooses who will be saved. YES, He does. And the Bible tells us directly who He chooses to save. There is one condition that must be met for God to choose to save the individual.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

But this isn't an election in the biblical sense. God's plan is to save those who believe in His Son.

Election is different. God elects people for service, as Eph 1:4 very plainly shows. Also, 1 Cor 1:27,28. And many more.

None of this proves what Calvinists claim; that God elects UNCONDITIONALLY who will be saved. If that were true, then believing is Not a condition for salvation.

In a Calvinist's mind, election means that believing is just a byproduct of God's election. That is nonsense.

If Calvinism were correct, Paul's answer to the jailer who asked what he MUST DO to be saved, would have been "there's nothing you can do. God already decided unconditionally who He would save. For those He did elect, He WILL regenerate them so that they WILL believe.

None of that can be found in the Bible.

Wrong answer, which is typical of Calvinists. 1 Cor 1:21 proves that the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election is false. And their go-to fav verse, which is Eph 1:4 says that God chose "us" (defined in v.19 as "us who believe"). . . to be holy and blameless.

That is service, no matter how hard Calvinists will argue otherwise.

Man believes from his own heart, per Rom 10:10. But man must hear before he can believe.

Believing is simply a response to the gospel promise. So the basis issue is this: Do you believe what God promises?