Is faith a work?
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I was dismayed at how soon you pulled away from what I was trying to help you with. Can one come to understand this great Doctrinal truth in five or six posts? I think not! Five or six months maybe, with the continual help of the Holy Spirit, diligent study and prayer.
As to respect of your post, I must now ask you the following: Since Grace is a gift and Salvation is a gift from God... then why is it so difficult to understand that faith is a gift? Each and everyone are a part of what is imparted in the new birth of Regeneration. Why do people need to see a black and white verse for them to see the principle which is clearly laid out. Salvation is of God!!! Not part of it. Not some of it. It is all of God or it is not Salvation. Human beings have faith... but it is not the same faith needed to believe in Christ in a saving way. Human faith ebbs and flows with the times, the subject and our situation. The Faith that comes from a regenerated heart and mind, takes God at His Word and throws all of it's hope upon it. Look at what John said in chapter 1, about the origins of our salvation:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
He stated that: "as many as received Him, (Christ), are the same as: "them that believe", and they were given the right to become sons of God. BUT how was this accomplished? Verse 13: Which were born of God. Note, the three things prohibited here for being responsible. 1.) Not of bloods, (word is actually plural), therefore, not through any kind of genealogy or heredity. 2.) Not of the will of the flesh. Therefore, not of mans will or desire, that which might originate from the flesh or natural fallen state. We know what Scripture says about the flesh. Sin comes from it. In it and through it we cannot please God. 3.) Not of the will of a man. Not his own will nor the will of someone else. A king cannot decree it, a preacher cannot bestow it and a millionaire cannot buy it.
These things are not that difficult to see and understand. Unless... we only think in "temporal" terms and ignore the Eternal reality. God planned Salvation and appointed His Son as redeemer from all eternity... right? God Elected from Eternity... right? (Eph. 1:4) God planned every Minute Detail of His plan, in His eternal mind. Thus, the Elect were placed into an eternal covenant with Christ:
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, even our Lord Jesus,
The names of the Elect were placed in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world and the rest of the world was not:
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
Who is it that shall worship the Beast? Those not in the Lamb's Book of Life:
Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.
Who was cast into the lake of fire?
Rev_20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Who shall enter into the Eternal Kingdom? Only the Elect of God:
Rev_21:27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that have been written in the Lamb's book of life.
It is important to Note: In verses 13:8; 17:8 and 20:15: The word "Written" and it's variations - (Highlighted in orange) - are a Perfect tense Verb. Thus, understood as: Was not written in the past and the results of that continue into the future. The absolute opposite of verse 21:27 - also a Perfect tense Verb, which means: it was written in the past and remains written forever.
What God hath done in Eternity... cannot be undone in time. God planned everything in His Eternal Mind and this is how He knows everything that is going to happen because no one can change His Plan. (Many Scriptures on that point). God planned it and He will do it and no Human being or Angel can change it.
Just some more thoughts to ponder.
As to respect of your post, I must now ask you the following: Since Grace is a gift and Salvation is a gift from God... then why is it so difficult to understand that faith is a gift? Each and everyone are a part of what is imparted in the new birth of Regeneration. Why do people need to see a black and white verse for them to see the principle which is clearly laid out. Salvation is of God!!! Not part of it. Not some of it. It is all of God or it is not Salvation. Human beings have faith... but it is not the same faith needed to believe in Christ in a saving way. Human faith ebbs and flows with the times, the subject and our situation. The Faith that comes from a regenerated heart and mind, takes God at His Word and throws all of it's hope upon it. Look at what John said in chapter 1, about the origins of our salvation:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
He stated that: "as many as received Him, (Christ), are the same as: "them that believe", and they were given the right to become sons of God. BUT how was this accomplished? Verse 13: Which were born of God. Note, the three things prohibited here for being responsible. 1.) Not of bloods, (word is actually plural), therefore, not through any kind of genealogy or heredity. 2.) Not of the will of the flesh. Therefore, not of mans will or desire, that which might originate from the flesh or natural fallen state. We know what Scripture says about the flesh. Sin comes from it. In it and through it we cannot please God. 3.) Not of the will of a man. Not his own will nor the will of someone else. A king cannot decree it, a preacher cannot bestow it and a millionaire cannot buy it.
These things are not that difficult to see and understand. Unless... we only think in "temporal" terms and ignore the Eternal reality. God planned Salvation and appointed His Son as redeemer from all eternity... right? God Elected from Eternity... right? (Eph. 1:4) God planned every Minute Detail of His plan, in His eternal mind. Thus, the Elect were placed into an eternal covenant with Christ:
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, even our Lord Jesus,
The names of the Elect were placed in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world and the rest of the world was not:
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
Who is it that shall worship the Beast? Those not in the Lamb's Book of Life:
Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.
Who was cast into the lake of fire?
Rev_20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Who shall enter into the Eternal Kingdom? Only the Elect of God:
Rev_21:27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that have been written in the Lamb's book of life.
It is important to Note: In verses 13:8; 17:8 and 20:15: The word "Written" and it's variations - (Highlighted in orange) - are a Perfect tense Verb. Thus, understood as: Was not written in the past and the results of that continue into the future. The absolute opposite of verse 21:27 - also a Perfect tense Verb, which means: it was written in the past and remains written forever.
What God hath done in Eternity... cannot be undone in time. God planned everything in His Eternal Mind and this is how He knows everything that is going to happen because no one can change His Plan. (Many Scriptures on that point). God planned it and He will do it and no Human being or Angel can change it.
Just some more thoughts to ponder.
In Eph 2:8 Saved by Grace is synonymous with the new birth, quickening in Vs 5 and Faith comes by that Grace, so it is a Gift of God because the saving grace of the new birth is a Gift. The whole process of Salvation by grace through faith is the Gift of God.
But now if you yank faith out of the grace package, and make it of yourself, then it becomes salvation by your works, and that is what this thread sets out to prove.
But now if you yank faith out of the grace package, and make it of yourself, then it becomes salvation by your works, and that is what this thread sets out to prove.
There is a point. The heart "is desperately wicked".
Jer 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This doesn't say or mean that man's heart cannot believe the gospel promise.
Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
The Bible uses "new heart" as a figure of speech to describe the fact of being born again.
It seems you like to make up stuff. What verse tells you this?
Again, this is a figure of speech that describes being born again.
What is "not of yourselves" is your salvation. Rom 10:10 plainly REFUTES your Calvinism.
That is your opinion. It is not biblical. Faith is the means OF salvation. So it's not part of it. iow, God saves those who believe (have faith).
It is one of the RESULTS of salvation. Not a "part of" salvation.
All wrong.
I do. You should.
Jer 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This doesn't say or mean that man's heart cannot believe the gospel promise.
Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
The Bible uses "new heart" as a figure of speech to describe the fact of being born again.
It seems you like to make up stuff. What verse tells you this?
Again, this is a figure of speech that describes being born again.
What is "not of yourselves" is your salvation. Rom 10:10 plainly REFUTES your Calvinism.
That is your opinion. It is not biblical. Faith is the means OF salvation. So it's not part of it. iow, God saves those who believe (have faith).
It is one of the RESULTS of salvation. Not a "part of" salvation.
All wrong.
I do. You should.
Nice try, but not what the Bible says. Please quit resisting Greek grammar. "Faith" is masculine gender and salvation and gift are feminine.
If you really think this, then you are having a very difficult time thinking then. Don't be silly. Eph 2:8 very clearly says we are saved by grace. There is no way I've "yanked out" faith from the grace package.
Rom 10;10 says plainly that man believes from his heart. The Calvinist claim that believing comes from God is unbiblical.
God created the human race with a conscience, with which to understand right and wrong and make decisions. Rom 2:14,15.
So unbelievers CAN and DO understand the gospel promise.
If you really think this, then you are having a very difficult time thinking then. Don't be silly. Eph 2:8 very clearly says we are saved by grace. There is no way I've "yanked out" faith from the grace package.
Rom 10;10 says plainly that man believes from his heart. The Calvinist claim that believing comes from God is unbiblical.
God created the human race with a conscience, with which to understand right and wrong and make decisions. Rom 2:14,15.
So unbelievers CAN and DO understand the gospel promise.
Exactly. The heart is desperately wicked. This desperately wicked heart isn't capable of working the works of God.
This is like explaining facts to a stubborn 2 yr old...
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The desperately wicked heart can't do that. Only the New Heart given by God can do that.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Oh, look at that. God gives us a new heart. The one that accomplishes the work of God, which is to believe on the Him whom He hath sent.
Looks like Faith, Believing, Grace and Salvation are ALL Gifts of God. Weird. Maybe you are interpreting your Greek grammar incorrectly.
This is like explaining facts to a stubborn 2 yr old...
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The desperately wicked heart can't do that. Only the New Heart given by God can do that.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Oh, look at that. God gives us a new heart. The one that accomplishes the work of God, which is to believe on the Him whom He hath sent.
Looks like Faith, Believing, Grace and Salvation are ALL Gifts of God. Weird. Maybe you are interpreting your Greek grammar incorrectly.
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Yet even within greek grammer the word that neuter can denote the whole process of Salvation by Grace through Faith as being the Gift of God.
Nothing of Salvation by Grace through Faith is of ourselves. Salvation is not of ourselves, Grace is not of us, Faith is not of ourselves, all the Gift of God.
But if we insist that faith is our part, then it defaults to salvation by works.
Nothing of Salvation by Grace through Faith is of ourselves. Salvation is not of ourselves, Grace is not of us, Faith is not of ourselves, all the Gift of God.
But if we insist that faith is our part, then it defaults to salvation by works.
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Why do you keep repeating this Calvinist saw?
Rom 10:10 refutes the idea that believing from within one's own heart amounts to works.
God created humanity with the ability to believe, but Calvinism claims differently.
That's correct. But trusting in what God promises isn't "spiritual". It is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
Rom 10:10 refutes the idea that believing from within one's own heart amounts to works.
God created humanity with the ability to believe, but Calvinism claims differently.
That's correct. But trusting in what God promises isn't "spiritual". It is a trust issue, not a spiritual issue.
Of course not. Jesus' answer to the works-mentality Jews was tongue-in-cheek.
Your condescension is pitiful. But if it makes you fee superior......
Did you even bother to see what the Jews actually asked Jesus in v.28?
v.28 - Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Do you understand this? They wanted to know what they MUST DO that "God requires" for eternal life. Their question was the SAME as the jailer asked Paul: "what MUST I DO to be saved?"
So, what does God require? That THEY believe on Christ. Kinda refutes your claims, doesn't it.
Sure it can. And the apostle Paul refutes you in Rom 10:10. Why can't you understand that?
You have it exactly backwards. Th "new heart" is a figure of speech for regeneration. You guys think that regeneration is necessary for someone to believe, but the Bible never says that.
Regeneration.
Oh, look again. Believers are "new creatures". So it ain't just a heart. We become new creatures. 2 Cor 5:17
Read your statement slowly and you will see it doesn't make sense.
The "work" that God requires is to believe. That comes from YOUR YOUR YOUR heart. Just as Rom 10:10 says.
Yeah, I think "weird" covers your confusion pretty well. The Bible doesn't say what you say.
Go to biblehub.com and see for yourself. Or go buy a Greek lexicon that includes the parsing. Then you'll see for yourself.
Your condescension is pitiful. But if it makes you fee superior......
Did you even bother to see what the Jews actually asked Jesus in v.28?
v.28 - Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Do you understand this? They wanted to know what they MUST DO that "God requires" for eternal life. Their question was the SAME as the jailer asked Paul: "what MUST I DO to be saved?"
So, what does God require? That THEY believe on Christ. Kinda refutes your claims, doesn't it.
Sure it can. And the apostle Paul refutes you in Rom 10:10. Why can't you understand that?
You have it exactly backwards. Th "new heart" is a figure of speech for regeneration. You guys think that regeneration is necessary for someone to believe, but the Bible never says that.
Regeneration.
Oh, look again. Believers are "new creatures". So it ain't just a heart. We become new creatures. 2 Cor 5:17
Read your statement slowly and you will see it doesn't make sense.
The "work" that God requires is to believe. That comes from YOUR YOUR YOUR heart. Just as Rom 10:10 says.
Yeah, I think "weird" covers your confusion pretty well. The Bible doesn't say what you say.
Maybe you are interpreting your Greek grammar incorrectly.
Except salvation and gift are feminine and faith is masculine.
You desperately need to believe that in order to prop up your theology, even though the Bible doesn't teach your theology.
In John 6:29 answered the Jews' question with "the work of God (tongue-in-cheek) is to believe on the One He sent". Very clearly God requires men to believe on Christ for eternal life.
And the jailer in Acts 16 asked Paul nearly the same exact question: "what MUST I DO to be saved?". And Paul told him the SAME THING that Jesus told the crowd of Jews: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and YOU YOU YOU will be saved".
So, in both passages, the issue for the questioners is what THEY MUST DO. And they MUST BELIEVE.
It can be called "man's response to the gospel message", but unfortunately Calvinists muddy up the waters by their misunderstanding about how the Bible describes "work" in the first place, so they wrongly interpret "believing from the heart", which is taught cleary in Rom 10:10 as a work, when Rom 4:4,5 describes "work" as something EARNED.
Salvation is NOT earned. It is given on the basis of GRACE, which is the opposite of work.
Salvation is not of ourselves, Grace is not of us, Faith is not of ourselves, all the Gift of God.
This is simply a Calvinistic error of thought.
Responding to the gospel message isn't a work, in any sense. But Calvinists just don't want the truth.
You desperately need to believe that in order to prop up your theology, even though the Bible doesn't teach your theology.
In John 6:29 answered the Jews' question with "the work of God (tongue-in-cheek) is to believe on the One He sent". Very clearly God requires men to believe on Christ for eternal life.
And the jailer in Acts 16 asked Paul nearly the same exact question: "what MUST I DO to be saved?". And Paul told him the SAME THING that Jesus told the crowd of Jews: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and YOU YOU YOU will be saved".
So, in both passages, the issue for the questioners is what THEY MUST DO. And they MUST BELIEVE.
It can be called "man's response to the gospel message", but unfortunately Calvinists muddy up the waters by their misunderstanding about how the Bible describes "work" in the first place, so they wrongly interpret "believing from the heart", which is taught cleary in Rom 10:10 as a work, when Rom 4:4,5 describes "work" as something EARNED.
Salvation is NOT earned. It is given on the basis of GRACE, which is the opposite of work.
Salvation is not of ourselves, Grace is not of us, Faith is not of ourselves, all the Gift of God.
This is simply a Calvinistic error of thought.
Responding to the gospel message isn't a work, in any sense. But Calvinists just don't want the truth.
Well I keep a healthy skepticism because I see there is a slippery slope here. If faith is a gift and the Bible proved it, I would probably immediately convert to Univeralism because I know God wants no one to perish and would provide a total path to salvation absent of any requirements because God is omnipotent.
I don’t really want to go down that road because of the labyrinth of theological and Biblical problems associated with it.
As it goes, the Bible does not in fact succinctly say faith is a gift anywhere. What I see is Jesus came and told people to believe, have faith, repent, etc. Why would Jesus need to come and say all of that and be sacrificed if God just needed to instead just speak whatever He wanted into existence?
I propose that Jesus fulfilled a legal requirement that enables death to be destroyed. Jesus died a sinless person and death received Him. Death cannot receive a sinless person because only sinners die. Therefore, death itself sinned and will be cast into the lake of fire. Now the resurrection to eternal life is legally possible and those who believe in Christ and what He did will have eternal life. Those who don’t will perish.
I don’t really want to go down that road because of the labyrinth of theological and Biblical problems associated with it.
As it goes, the Bible does not in fact succinctly say faith is a gift anywhere. What I see is Jesus came and told people to believe, have faith, repent, etc. Why would Jesus need to come and say all of that and be sacrificed if God just needed to instead just speak whatever He wanted into existence?
I propose that Jesus fulfilled a legal requirement that enables death to be destroyed. Jesus died a sinless person and death received Him. Death cannot receive a sinless person because only sinners die. Therefore, death itself sinned and will be cast into the lake of fire. Now the resurrection to eternal life is legally possible and those who believe in Christ and what He did will have eternal life. Those who don’t will perish.
Faith is the by product of Grace., true believers believe because of grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
And Grace here is another way of saying the New Birth.
But if you insist that you believed because of your own freewill apart from the Grace of the New Birth, its works.
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
And Grace here is another way of saying the New Birth.
But if you insist that you believed because of your own freewill apart from the Grace of the New Birth, its works.