Marks of Discipleship / AW Tozer

1.MARKS OF DISCIPLESHIP Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. MATTHEW 7:21 In the New Testament salvation and discipleship are so closely related as to be indivisible. They are not identical, but as with Siamese twins they are joined by a tie which can be severed only at the price of death. Yet they are being severed in evangelical circles today. In the working creed of the average Christian salvation is held to be immediate and automatic, while discipleship is thought to be something optional that the Christian may delay indefinitely or never accept at all. It is not uncommon to hear Christian workers urging seekers to accept Christ now and leave moral and social questions to be decided later. The notion is that obedience and discipleship are unrelated to salvation. We may be saved by believing a historic fact about Jesus Christ—that He died for our sins and rose again—and applying this to our personal situation. The whole biblical concept of lordship and obedience is completely absent from the mind of the seeker. He needs help, and Christ is the very one, even the only one, who can furnish it, so he “takes” Him as his personal Savior. The idea of His lordship is completely ignored. The absence of the concept of discipleship from present-day Christianity leaves a vacuum that we instinctively try to fill with one or another substitute. I name a few. SUBSTITUTES FOR DISCIPLESHIP Pietism. By this I mean an enjoyable feeling of affection for the person of our Lord that is valued for itself and is wholly unrelated to cross-bearing or the keeping of the commandments of Christ. It is entirely possible to feel for Jesus an ardent love that is not of the Holy Spirit. Witness the love for the Virgin felt by certain devout souls, a love which in the very nature of things must be purely subjective. The heart is adept at emotional tricks and is entirely capable of falling in love with imaginary objects or romantic religious ideas. In the confused world of romance, young persons are constantly inquiring how they can tell when they are “in love.” They are afraid they may mistake some other sensation for true love and are seeking some trustworthy criterion by which they can judge the quality of their latest emotional fever. Their confusion of course arises from the erroneous notion that love is an enjoyable inward passion, without intellectual or volitional qualities and carrying with it no moral obligations. Our Lord gave us a rule by which we can test our love for Him: “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him…. If a man love me, he will keep my words…. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” (John 14:21, 23–24). These words are too plain to need much interpreting. Proof of love for Christ is simply removed altogether from the realm of the feelings and placed in the realm of practical obedience. I think the rest of the New Testament is in full accord with this. Another substitute for discipleship is literalism. Our Lord referred to this when He reproached the Pharisees for their habit of tithing mint and anise and cumin while at the same time omitting the weightier matters of the Law such as justice, mercy and faith. Literalism manifests itself among us in many ways, but it can always be identified in that it lives by the letter of the Word while ignoring its spirit. It habitually fails to apprehend the inward meaning of Christ’s words, and contents itself with external compliance with the text. If Christ commands baptism, for instance, it finds fulfillment in the act of water baptism, but the radical meaning of the act as explained in Romans 6 is completely overlooked. It reads the Scriptures regularly, contributes consistently to religious work, attends church every Sunday and otherwise carries on the common duties of a Christian; and for this it is to be commended. Its tragic breakdown is its failure to comprehend the lordship of Christ, the believer’s discipleship, separation from the world and the crucifixion of the natural man. Literalism attempts to build a holy temple upon the sandy foundation of the religious self. It will suffer, sacrifice and labor, but it will not die. It is Adam at his pious best, but it has never denied self to take up the cross and follow Christ. Another substitute for discipleship I would mention (though these do not exhaust the list) is zealous religious activity. Working for Christ has today been accepted as the ultimate test of godliness among all but a few evangelical Christians. Christ has become a project to be promoted or a cause to be served instead of a Lord to be obeyed. Thousands of mistaken persons seek to do for Christ whatever their fancy suggests should be done, and in whatever way they think best. The what and the how of Christian service can only originate in the sovereign will of our Lord, but the busy beavers among us ignore this fact and think up their own schemes. The result is an army of men who run without being sent and speak without being commanded. To avoid the snare of unauthorized substitution I recommend a careful and prayerful study of the lordship of Christ and the discipleship of the believer.





AW Tozer. Discipleship: What It Truly Means to Be a Christian--Collected Insights from A. W. Tozer (pp. 2-5). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.

A complete and total conflation of what discipleship means amd a reversal of the role. A disciple is a student of a teacher. The command Jesus gave was for his disciples to go and make disciples. It is the pastors job to disciple his congregation. It isnt the role of the convert to disciple himself.

A complete and total conflation of what discipleship means amd a reversal of the role. A disciple is a student of a teacher. The command Jesus gave was for his disciples to go and make disciples. It is the pastors job to disciple his congregation. It isnt the role of the convert to disciple himself.

I don't get the meaning here, "It is the pastors job to disciple his congregation." If a disciple is a student it seems the pastor's work should be instilling a desire to learn. And that doesn't sound just right. When I read discipleship; that needs better defining.

Disciple and discipline are connected. They both mean “to narrow” as in measure of behavior and conduct, we must also include faith.

I can think of several instances in scripture wherein church discipline was administered. They were all administered by an apostle.

I do not see the congregational model in the scriptures. I see churches only distinct by the cities they’re in and smaller groups in households. If believers cannot accept the discipline of the clear written word there is little chance they will submit to any discipline. The evidence is the lawlessness today. Believers think it nothing to move to another group if they don‘t like the pastor.

To change churches you have to have a letter of good standing.

You mean within that denomination, correct?

The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. It is suprising to me that rather than accept the wisdom offered by a man of God as AW Tozer . at face value . Some presume to add to it their own discourse on discipleship . Frankly , I don't need anyone to agree with me or Tozer. I will stand apart . I am pretty discouraged by those who receive not the love of the truth. God wants us to grow we begin as babes and as He finishes the work he began in us hopefully we end up the measure of the stature of Christ as in Ephesians where God is working to take us to maturity not be tossed to a fro by every wind of doctrine , etc. But I really sense a resistance to change and a non committment to growth disguised by words . All of you . The kingdom of God is not in word but in power. The greatest will still be the servant of all . And as Job , said to his . Now you are the people and wisdom will die with you . I will stand apart . And read Towzer on Discipleship . The rest of you naysayers can take the bus , exact change , no tokens.

MARKS OF DISCIPLESHIP Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. MATTHEW 7:21

Checked Wiki and see Tozer associated with Wheaton near me in Chicago. Even better as I see Wheaton referenced on occasion. I am still interested in trying to get understanding of these folks. Tase Russell is the JW. My JW interest still stands. May be of no interest to others.
I didn't check again but fairly certain Tozer is a founder of Jehovah Witness group. And I see Moody published this. I get JW folk stopping by fairly regularly. Some preacher in Missouri early on in my search told me they are heretics or words to that effect. My assessment of the group so far is talking with them when they come by and I find them to be reasonable and some things we discussed are of interest in my desire to figure out why they are looked upon with suspicion by some. According to Wikipedia they are non-trinitarian and I see that this chat site claims that such are considered heretical. I was listening to Charles Spurgeon for some time now and feel he had a relatively 'inspired' life and learning. One of Spurgeon's sermons mentioned his reluctance to try comprehending the 'Trinity'. In what I learned of Spurgeon by calling and talking with a student at the Spurgeon Center and also talking with maybe six individuals, primarily in Florida at Zion Chapel Library and also some preachers in NC and SC and Fl. my assessment of Spurgeon is that he was a 'phenomenal' individual. I also read a couple articles from local papers of his time. What this has to with Tozer and JW's is possibly only incidental but the roots and crossovers and influences of these groups are of some value as I see it. Your post has so much of Tozer's own philosophy and little Bible reference it seems. But to me it seems that getting a feel for Tozer and possibly Moody would be helpful.

This being reformation day, i cant help myself but make reference.
This scathing accusation is similar to the edict drawn up by Aleandro against Martin Luther when he came against the false teachings of Rome and particularly Pope Leo.
Of coarse Martin said show him his error by scripture. And thussly so do I.
What i see in scripture is Jesus; when turning His earthly ministry over to his disciples, giving a directive to make disciples. Not one passages that i know of suggests that anyone disciple themselves.
Even the pastoral epistles themselves are the Apostles discipling said pastors

I'm afraid for most the hunger for God is not there .

We are not to disciple ourselves we are to feed ourselves or learn to feed ourselves. We are given the Word of God which is supernatural and powerful. As far as Pastors they are one gift of men , along with Apostles , Prophets , Evanglists and Teachers . Ascension gifts of Christ as described in Ephesians gifts of men given to the church for the perfecting of the saints for the work of The ministry Our ministry. I have seen this first hand having hit rock bottom , going through the trauma of conversion . Literally waking up from living without God to encountering God. Then seeking The Lord . Everyone is not the same in their experience and there is much to it. But the most concise advise is keep the Word of God close to your soul. Knowing that in the Word of God there is the ability to feed your new nature , renew your mind . Cause it is all things become new , it is a supernatural book . You didn't know God now He is drawing you , you will learn from The Spirit of God. We are to cooperate with the washing , renewal and regeneration of the Holy Spirit as The Lord is determined to finish the work He began in you . We have a part. Be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.. ................

First of all a soul should follow Jesus that is what a disciple does . AW Tozer has nothing to do has nothing to do with the Jehovahs Witness cult. Whether you live near Wheaton College where Billy Graham went to college or have read Charles Spurgeon is not the gist of the post or anything relevant to the topic of Discipleship . The gist of this first 2 short chapters of the book is to differitiate between accepting Jesus and doing your own thing or following Jesus and obeying Him. What most do these days are hear without listening . We are called to follow Jesus, dying to our selves and Obeying the will of God moreover surrendering to God every part of our lives is what we are called to. If Jesus is not Lord of all is/ He just Our Savior ? Discipleship is about following the Lord God and abiding in a living relationship with the same. Folks tend to try it in their own way and it not only doesn't work it creates problems for anyone who has a burden for Christs people. When the see that they have no clue God will lead them and guide them to life and that more abundantly if they will leave their plans for His. Conversion of the soul and reconciliation followed by a pursuit of God, laying down ones plans for their life and taking up the cross and following Jesus to Know the Lord is to have the Lord interact with you as old things pass away and all things become new. Being a new creation in Christ , a babe in the Wilderness in a spiritual minefield to walk with God Almighty is not easy thing . Overcoming the guilt of sin , fighting condemnation with God's Word . An ever present leading of the Holy Spirit as God reveals the life He has for you . I'm afraid for most the hunger for God is not there . Some enjoy rambling about spiritual things but frankly do not grasp the concept of regeneration and How the Lord transforms us by the Word and By His Spirit as we grow and press in to God.

Checked Wiki and see Tozer associated with Wheaton near me in Chicago. Even better as I see Wheaton referenced on occasion. I am still interested in trying to get understanding of these folks. Tase Russell is the JW. My JW interest still stands. May be of no interest to others.
I didn't check again but fairly certain Tozer is a founder of Jehovah Witness group. And I see Moody published this. I get JW folk stopping by fairly regularly. Some preacher in Missouri early on in my search told me they are heretics or words to that effect. My assessment of the group so far is talking with them when they come by and I find them to be reasonable and some things we discussed are of interest in my desire to figure out why they are looked upon with suspicion by some. According to Wikipedia they are non-trinitarian and I see that this chat site claims that such are considered heretical. I was listening to Charles Spurgeon for some time now and feel he had a relatively 'inspired' life and learning. One of Spurgeon's sermons mentioned his reluctance to try comprehending the 'Trinity'. In what I learned of Spurgeon by calling and talking with a student at the Spurgeon Center and also talking with maybe six individuals, primarily in Florida at Zion Chapel Library and also some preachers in NC and SC and Fl. my assessment of Spurgeon is that he was a 'phenomenal' individual. I also read a couple articles from local papers of his time. What this has to with Tozer and JW's is possibly only incidental but the roots and crossovers and influences of these groups are of some value as I see it. Your post has so much of Tozer's own philosophy and little Bible reference it seems. But to me it seems that getting a feel for Tozer and possibly Moody would be helpful.

The main problem with JW is that they deny that Jesus is God.