Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Good one.

I know someone is going to reinterpret 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 to mean something else

but there’s one part of it that isn’t going to be changed no matter what. It’s the possibility of believing in the gospel in vain. In OSAS, one can’t believe in vain, but Paul clearly said otherwise.

Really? You are comparing or equating salvation to a baby?? Why in the world?

So you think your salvation is maintained by regular feedings?

So, what verse informs you of what you SAY? iow, quote a verse that SAYS what you SAY.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Being born again signifies our salvation, becoming sons of God, having an inheritance.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You need to feed a baby milk, otherwise it dies. However, it is supposed to grow into a full age where it can eat meat and no longer needs milk.

Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

The picture here is of plants withering and dying because they have no root and so when the sun is high in the sky they dry up.

1Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

This sacrament is one of two sacraments given to the church that we have been charged to keep. It demonstrates that we need to eat and drink the Lord to maintain our fellowship.

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

Jesus tells us clearly that we must eat this bread to "not die". You do not eat bread once for all, it is a daily thing that we must do.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus makes it clear that the bread we eat for our physical body is indicative of the more important bread we eat for our spiritual life.

Matthew 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

The very next use of the word "bread" in Matthew instructs us to pray for daily bread, a daily supply of the word of God just like the Israelites had a daily supply of Manna.

Runningman said:
This verse debunks OSAS:

1 Corinthians 15:1,2
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Notice it says salvation is dependent upon holding firmly to the word preached which is the gospel. Not holding firmly to the gospel, i.e., losing faith is believing in vain.

Right. And every verse is good. However, you and rm fail to understand what Paul wrote.

See post 1758 for clarity.

And then prove to me that I am wrong about v.2.

Except . . . . . . in #2 above, they aren't "being given eternal life" as some kind of on-going gift that "keeps on giving". In fact, I always include John 5:24 because that verse says that "whosoever believes HAS (possesses) eternal life." Not that they "keep getting it".

Eternal life is an immediate gift. Given all at once. Believers HAVE it. They aren't "getting it" throughout their life.
.

The verse teaches holding firmly to the Gospel is necessary to be saved.

It is not talking about a false Gospel, such as one that denies Jesus is God, so your example doesn't apply.

It is talking about holding firmly the Gospel to be saved.

It says those who don't hold firmly, i.e. believe for a while and then fall away, believe in vain, i.e. do not attain salvation.

The Lord also taught this in the Gospel: "13And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14The sower sows the word. 15And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.” (Mark 4)

Now, go back to what the Lord said of these: "3“Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air came and devoured it. 5Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. 6But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. 7And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

These are the ones who believed in vain, because though they at first received the Word with joy, yet they had no root, and so in time of persecution or tribulation fell away.

Look, beyond a point, we all how to decide how we are best going to follow God's Will for us. For myself, I will do what 2 Pet 1:5-11 says, and then the Word says God's Grace will ensure I never stumble, whereas those mentioned above did stumble, did fall away, and as the verse says, did believe in vain.

2 Pet 1:5 "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

In Christ,
Xavier.

John 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

We need to have a daily communion with the Lord, eating the word of God as our daily bread, otherwise our faith will die.

John 10:27,28
My sheep (BELIEVERS) hear my voice, and I know them (BELIEVERS), and they (BELIEVERS) follow me: and I give unto them (BELIEVERS) eternal life; and they (BELIEVERS) shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them (BELIEVERS) out of my hand

I added the word "believers" to make the verses very clear.

I based my interpretation (and I admit it is my interpretation) on the Greek present tense that is used here. The normal rendering for the present tense is continuous, ongoing action - thus = and I am giving to them eternal life.

Your interpretation could also probably be a possibility based on variant uses of the Greek present tense. I have no problem seeing eternal life as what believers are receiving from the Father throughout their lifetime. You don't like saying it that way. But that is OK - we agree the text means that I (the Father) give eternal life to them (the sheep). We differ on how we interpret the Greek present tense here.

If you want to add the word "believers" in parentheses, I suppose you may - I am not sure why that is necessary.

John could have used the word "believers" if he had wanted to - but by divine inspiration it was "sheep" and then he used Greek pronouns after that.

Hence when I study the passage I try to just stick to the original words if I can.

Rather, our fruit bearing will die. Not our salvation, if you thought that.

Now, let's look at two passages St. Paul the Apostle wrote at two different times in his life:

1 Cor 9:24-28: "Run Your Race to Win
24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

This is 27: But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."

This letter was written around 53-54 A.D. St. Paul converted around 34 A.D, so after 20 years of ministry.

"The First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians, probably written about 53–54 ce at Ephesus": https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Letter-of-Paul-to-the-Corinthians

Now, the Greek word here is ἀδόκιμος (adokimos). It is the same word as in Rom 1:28: ἀδόκιμον (adokimon).

So, after 20 years of ministry, baptizing and converting tens of 1000s to Christ, and edifying and exhorting maybe 100s of thousands of Christians, St. Paul still considers as possible that he could fall away and become disqualified/reprobate (see Rom 1:28 where the same word is used). That statement should give pause to OSAS preachers that Paul never believed what they did, neither did Jesus Christ ever teach it, otherwise Paul would surely not have said this.

Now, some 13-14 years later, shortly before his heroic martyrdom for Our Lord Jesus Christ (how often do you hear modern preachers spoke of the Glory of Martyrdom for Jesus Christ; or of bearing Crosses lovingly for Him?), just before death was coming, THEN, Paul says: "I have kept the Faith ... there is laid up for me a Crown of Justice" etc. This ought to show every Christian that one should not claim one will persevere till death until one actually perseveres till then when death comes.

"Where are we?
Paul wrote 2 Timothy from a dark and damp Roman prison cell, just before his death in AD 67."

https://insight.org/resources/bible/the-pauline-epistles/second-timothy

2 Tim 4:6 "For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing."

And this is explicitly confirmed in two other passages at least.

Rev 2:10, the Lord Himself: "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Here the Lord teaches us that, by His Grace, we can and should strive for faithfulness to death to attain our heavenly crown.

And St. James the Apostle Jam 1:12: "12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him."

If you hope to receive the crown, you must make efforts to persevere in faith and love until the end. It's that simple.

Of course, it is God's Grace that enables you to persevere, just like it enabled you to believe. But it is still a free will choice.

Someone asked, how many good works, 5 or 50? The answer is, until one's death comes, you must faithfully do His Work.

God Bless.

John 15: 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

FreeGrace2 said:
Rather, our fruit bearing will die. Not our salvation, if you thought that.

Metaphors do not provide a foundation for doctrines. Jesus used the metaphor of burning branches to JEWS who were very proud that God had chosen them for His service. So the metaphor referred to being rejected for service, not salvation.

And "abiding" was used as a reciprocal relationship (fellowship). iow, believers out of fellowship with the Lord will NOT bear fruit.

1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.