GOD'S ULTIMATE PURPOSE FOR BELIEVERS

I don't think his point was we don't need our minds renewed, but the distinction is who does the renewing. You seem to be saying it is by our own effort. His point was that it is done by God in us.

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30).

Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

[For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.]

You quoted Phil. 2:13 but ignored the previous verse:

Philippians 2:12 (AMP) "Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ)."

[How would you know? Because I choose to walk by His promises rather than self-effort?]

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30). Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

No, because you love the term "forgiven sinner." So, in your words, you are decimating the work that Jesus accomplished (Jn 19;30). Either you are a saint and an heir of God, or you are outside of God's grace doing your own thing.

We renew our minds when we abide in Christ, stay on His word, and are obedient to what He reveals, no matter how small it may seem to be. Love one another is our response to His word, walking in righteousness is also a response to His word, obeying the truth, is a response to His word... I can go on...

God does work in us to will and to do His pleasure, but it's up to us to renew our minds.

Be careful in making judgements, from what people say or the words they use, to make a statement about their stance with God, only God knows the true state of someone's life.

None of what you said above is possible without God's help because even as believers it is contrary to our carnal nature that we are in a constant tug-o-war with to do what is right. With discipline and practice it gets easier, but is never as simple as you make it out to be.

If we had no opposition, then sure it would be both simple and easy, but the more we grow in Christ, the more of a threat we become to the enemy and the more attacks we may face. If you are going to speak about these things, do it in love, with understanding that each person's journey is different and sometimes harder than our own since we have no idea what battles they have had to face to make it to where they are. We also need to be aware that understanding scripture comes easier to some than it does to others so we should always be gracious when we try to communicate with others.

Be careful you don’t twist my words. I never said that we do it all in our own power. Without the Lord we can do nothing. (Jn 15:5).

We renew our minds when we abide in Christ, stay on His word, and are obedient to what He reveals, no matter how small it may seem to be. Love one another is our response to His word, walking in righteousness is also a response to His word, obeying the truth, is a response to His word... I can go on...

My understanding is rather different.

WE don't do much of anything...

walking in Righteousness or even Loving is not something that I cannot do.
Neither could the Israelites under the Law.
No, it's God working in us both to even Will or Obey.
And that is because of His Grace and Mercy and then through Christ Jesus & the Holy Spirit living in us.

Phil. 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

If you don't renew your mind, it won't happen.


God DOES work in us to will and to do His good pleasure, but He does not MAKE you do anything. Living as a Christian takes effort on our part. WE are to put off the old man and put on the new.

My understanding is rather different.

WE don't do much of anything... walking in Righteousness or even Loving is not something that I cannot do.
Neither could the Israelites under the Law.
No, it's God working in us both to even Will or Obey.
And that is because of His Grace and Mercy and then through Christ Jesus & the Holy Spirit living in us.

Phil. 2:12-13 (ESV) 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

I never twisted your words, but it seems that is how you read it. In fact, if anything I am agreeing with you and reinforcing what you are saying. But you seemed to have missed the larger point of what I was trying to say.