Government and Christian (Romans 13)

Leave them alone? No, handing them over is an active thing one does.

Does it say to pay taxes to a church? Where is that written?

Do you know the many forms of tribute that exist?

For reference Paul wrote this about the man who bragged about taking his father's wife:

"For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

This is a coordinated administration... not simply ignoring someone.

Paul would also write: "This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Again... an active administration.

Paul would also write to the Corinthians:

"I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children. Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. Therefore I urge you to imitate me. That is why I have sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful son in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which is exactly what I teach everywhere in every church.
Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only what these arrogant people are saying, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and with a gentle spirit?"

Paul spoke to them as one who had governing authority and power over their lives. Indeed, as a father in the Lord, he could exercise the power to rebuke, correct, punish, and restore.

I didn't say "leave them alone", I said leave them to their own devices. Kicking someone out of church does just that. They will have to recognize their errors the hard way, but they might never recognize them at all if they are allowed to stay in the church and cause trouble. The end goal is still reconciliation, though, not that they will literally be destroyed and die.
In most versions of the bible, it is translated taxes; where else is "tribute" used to describe a church offering?
Yes, and the end goal of these things is reconciliation, not retribution. You see how Hymenaus and Alexander were delivered to satan to learn not to blaspheme, and not because Paul wanted them utterly destroyed?

In my case a little under $8k a year.

Of course. Always with the intent to gain your brother.

Tribute is given to those who govern in the body of Christ. This pattern is seen dozens of times in the OT among God’s people. It’s found here in the NT regarding those in authority.

What ya see in the NT is christians obeying the law and govco except when it came to the gospel. They continued in the gospel even against the law, and they hid other christians and sheltered them. The even let Paul down out a window in a basket so he could escape.
We have two laws that we can not violate because they are the law of God. Love God with all our everything, and love our nieghbor as ourself. When taking into account any law we have to assess what it does to our neighbors and what it does to our ability to serve them along with what it means to serve our God above all things.
In the USA the constitution is the law of the land and we are to obey it, not law breakers who claim to be the law; they are usurpers and criminals. We have no obligation to them.

Acts 12

1Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. 5Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. 6And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison. 7And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands. 8And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me. 9And he went out, and followed him; and wist not that it was true which was done by the angel; but thought he saw a vision. 10When they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel departed from him. 11And when Peter was come to himself, he said, Now I know of a surety, that the Lord hath sent his angel, and hath delivered me out of the hand of Herod, and from all the expectation of the people of the Jews.

Did the Lord sin by delivering Peter out of the hand of King Herod?

No, he did not.

Romans 13 is talking about good rulers, and not evil ones.

I'd rather stand with GOD and be judged by the world
Than stand with the world and be judged by God.

JESUS said let your yeas be yeas and nays be nays.
Seek you first the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness.

politics have no place in governing a people all politics are is lies and secrets that will or will not be disclosed.
God has always led his people by truth. The integrity of a person is of great vaule.
Paul wrote..abstain from all appearance of evil.

Man made government will always fail for we are a vain people, and none are righteous no not one.

We are to oppose that which is evil and teach what is good and accepted. That is the duty of everyone that says they believe.
We are called out from among them to be holy as our father which is in heaven is holy.

Jeremiah 29:7 KJV
And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the Lord for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.

John 16:33 KJV
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I think most of the Western world is the same. Any country under Magna Carta, which would be all the current and ex-British colonies.

The people are supposed to control the government. Therefore, the people, as leaders, have a responsibility to ensure the government obeys the law.

Yet they would be wrong to do so, just like the first time.

That's your take, and that's fine. But if the people are the government, then those who oppose the people are the ones who are opposing God and the commandment you hold to.

Part of me wants to agree with you, but I don't find overthrowing the government in the Constitution or Federal law, even though some Founders certainly said worst case that's the remedy.

You need to read the Preamble of the Constitution. It reads..We the people...not We the government. We are the ruling authority.

The reasons given for the off-throwing of English rule was unalienable rights. This means there are certain rights that are endowed to us by God Himself and cannot be taken from us, despite what government or any other entity may say.. amongst these...but not limited to...are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

YES! why? because they are immensely corrupt. they are corrupt because nobody will ever get them in trouble. they are the highest power in the land. i wish i could tell CC some stories but certainly can't speak of it. i was blessed in the past & present to know people to hear factual instances from our government. the Bible says to obey your government but NOT when they are corrupt. are we to obey everyone who is corrupt? if the was the case, humans would'd have killed themselves off the face of the earth thousand of years ago! if no one protested, this country would not have a democracy, it would have been wiped out.

Well, of course I know it, but it's not a legally binding document.

I don't find unalienable rights in scripture as a reason to overthrow a government leader put there by God. Certainly when Paul wrote the letter to the Romans the government was much worse than anything England did, and I missed the part where he told us to overthrow Rome.

The Preamble is part of the Constitution.