kenosis . . ?

Thanks for sharing.

Christ's miracles were perfectly harmonious with the will of the Father at all times, and with the power of the Holy Spirit working with Him and through Him at all times (the term "deferred" being inappropriate). In fact the whole Godhead was always involved.

We have a good example of all three persons of the Godhead being involved in one situation presented in Matthew 12: 22-28 and Luke 11:14-20. Christ cast out a demon from a man who was both blind and dumb. The blindness was remove and the man began speaking, and as a result everyone was amazed and glorified God. But instead of glorifying God the Pharisees accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of Satan!

In His response this is what Jesus said: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. (Mt 12:28) The corresponding response in Luke 11:20 is this: But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. In Matthew the Holy Spirit is responsible for the miracle, and in Luke God the Father is responsible. But it was Jesus who performed that miracle. Nonetheless this is the context for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and how that sin will never be forgiven.

I appreciate your response. Thanks.

Maybe I'm too simplistic, but it seems to me that the answer to the opening question is found within the text itself.

Philippians 2

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words, prior to his incarnation, Jesus had equality with God in that he was only 100% divine.

After his incarnation, or after he was made in the likeness of men, his Father was greater than he was in relation to his humanity. This doesn't mean that Jesus lost his divinity during his incarnation. It just means that, in his humanity, he was no longer equal to God or had been "emptied" of that.

That's basically how I read it.

In our Philippians text it's clear He at least prior to appearing in the flesh was in the form of God - and it says therfore He did not think it robbery to be equal to God.

If we look through the gospels for Him considering Himself equal to God, we certainly find it: this is the very charge they tried immediately to kill Him for, and eventually He was crucified under, at the appropriate time.

We also see in more than one place His saying things like "my Father is greater than I" - so that there is both an equality and an hierarchy while He walked as a man.

I clearly see the hierarchy you speak of. Where is the equality claim?

What do you think Christ was claiming when He said that He was " I AM" (the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)? Or when He said that He had power on earth to forgive sins? Or when He said He that would raise the "temple" of His body in three days? Or when He said that He is the Resurrection and the Life? Or when He said that He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, and that they are both "One"? Even when He claimed to be "the Son of God" (and even "the Son of Man") His enemies took that to imply "I AM GOD" hence they took up stones to stone Him for "blasphemy".

MATTHEW 26: THE CLAIM "SON OF GOD" OR "SON OF MAN" WAS A CLAIM TO BE GOD
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said [meaning that is correct]: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

What was Jesus alluding to? This passage in Daniel 7:9-14
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened... 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

In addition to what Nehemiah put, even things like this -

Mark 2:5-8
When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven you." And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, "Why does this [Man] speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, "Why do you reason about these things in your hearts?

• David says it is against God and God alone he has sinned in Psalm 51 - not because he hadn't wronged anyone personally ((*cough* Uriah *cough*)) but because having done evil at all is sin against God, and no one can speak on God's behalf to remove God's offense. Even if we can forgive one another for what we do against each other, the man Jesus forgave here - had he sinned against Jesus? Only if Christ is equal with God
• It is God who "searches the heart" - this is written several times, e.g. Jeremiah 17:10 & Romans 8:27 - immediately demonstrating that He knows the secret things in our hearts, when these experts in the scripture were thinking 'wow isn't He making Himself out to be equal to God?' is in itself a demonstration/proof of that equality.

That says it all...

He laid aside His glory which He had with the Father

Your answer is right there in your question. Their demand was specific-- tell us if you are the Christ, the son of God.... It wasn't-- tell us if you are God. There is no instance in scripture where he ever said he was equal to, or the same as our Father in heaven.

Let me ask you-- if you have the Christ in you... just the way he promised-- would that make you equal with God?

Does this sound like equality with the Father, or obedience to Him? (John 17)

I have revealed your name to the men you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have obeyed your word. Now they understand that everything you have given me comes from you, because I have given them the words you have given me. They accepted them and really understand that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one— I in them and you in me—that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

Respectfully-- that avoided the question I asked regarding any claim to equality. You made a claim that he did not.

Even though you avoided my question and didn't offer any reference to back the claim you made, I'll address your points above.

Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven’ or to say, ‘Stand up and walk’? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then he said to the paralytic —“Stand up, take your stretcher, and go home.” (Matt 9)

I'll pose the same question to you-- which is easier? -to heal infirmities, or to forgive sins?

He taught us to forgive as (the same way) that we are forgiven. (Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us).

“But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.” (Matt 6).

Do you believe that? That if YOU don't forgive others, then YOUR sins won't be forgiven. You better be able to forgive the sins of others because it's a condition for the forgiveness of your sins. You either believe that, or you don't.

Circling back to the example you highlight-- of course it's easier to say- 'Your sins are forgiven' than it is to heal---- so he healed to demonstrate his authority to do the harder thing. (Mark 6)

Jesus called the Twelve and began to send them out two by two. He gave them authority over the unclean spirits. He instructed them to take nothing for the journey except a staff —no bread, no bag, no money in their belts— and to put on sandals but not to wear two tunics. He said to them, “Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave the area. If a place will not welcome you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.” So they went out and preached that all should repent. They cast out many demons and anointed many sick people with olive oil and healed them.

Do you suppose that they had the authority to do the harder thing, but not the thing that is easier?

To heal a paralyzed person you need to have complete control over the physical universe, regrowing tissue atom-by-atom, and doing it instantaneously. That takes unfathomable energy, power and knowledge.

But for God to forgive sin ((this is different than a human forgiving another)) you have to somehow make omniscience "forget"

'which is easier' is not as simple a question as it seems, IMO

I has been said that to "remove" or "remember no more" is a shade different than to "forget".....

Psa 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Heb 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 10:17
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Neither is difficult for God. In doing the one He is implying He can do the other.

And God doesn't actually forget anything or He is no longer omniscient. It's a metaphor for the length and depth of God's forgiveness.

Atomic "particles" may not even really exist in the sense that we think. More like a magnetic dynamo with circular frequency. For all intents and purposes "hard light" constructs.

Im glad you found a benefit it’s mostly thoughts from the book of Hebrews
that is a remarkable book as to Jesus Christ our high priest and intercessor

That perfect high priest and intercessor is what mankind was lacking and us what Hebrews really is centered upon it’s literally “ the subject “ the first 8 chapters are explaining all this about our high priest in heaven the lord Jesus after he went to heaven

“God ….hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. ( he became one of us in order to overcome death for all Of us )

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬

“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; ( he made himself subject like a man is he became one of us )

though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:7-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever After the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. but this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:15-19, 22, 24-28‬ ‭

“Now of the things which we have spoken ( in the first 8 chapters ) this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Man got themselves in this situation

“God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭53:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So no one could intercede for mankind no one was a worthy intercessor and there was no worthy sacrifice for what mankind had done. he saw this and it displeased him so he became that intercessor

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-17, 19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭47:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sure you n order to him to be fully a man and overcome for man he had to make himself fully subject like we are to gods authority and judgement it’s why Jesus always made this distinction on earth , but also includes himself with God

“My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.( making himself subject to Gods authority )

I and my Father are one.”( acknowledging equality )
‭‭John‬ ‭10:29-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even as he has stated equality and unity With God which no mere man can claim

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s showing man’s position of stewardship and being subject to God as children to a father

in Christ we see God and mankind who is made to be his image



Even though he is who he is he freely and willingly lives as one of us to save us

“Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He had the authority to do this even as a man but it wouldn’t have saved mankind

“Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:53-