Baptism for the dead (1 Cor 15:29)

The Scriptures tells us very clearly that baptism in water is for a BELIEVER who is living, it is NOT for a dead person and Scripture does NOT need to say it's not for a dead person for a believer to understand that it's only for a person who is alive and a believer in the Lord Jesus!

Read Romans chapter 6!

PS: Your spelling (etc.) is rather poor!

1 Corinthians 15:

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The short simple explanation:

"If there is no resurrection of the dead - then, Christ is dead - and, if Christ is dead - why do we baptize people in His name?"

In other words, what good is baptism if Christ did not rise from the dead?

It has absolutely nothing to do with (read: it is not about) baptizing dead people.

If you knew how difficult it was for our brother to respond, you would be praising his efforts. Everyone doesn't communicate with ease. I'm not condemning your behavior; merely informing you of his difficulty.

It is an enigma, to be left alone. Evidently some Christians at that time though they were doing their dead loved ones a favor by being baptized for them by proxy, with the mistaken idea that baptism could save them, and they would rise from the dead with the saints. As to why Paul would bring this up is a real enigma.

Hes addressing thier doubt of the resurrection is why he brings it up he uses the example because it’s a practice they were doing in order to like you say there be baptized for a loved one who had already died

the reason Paul used it is because th y all understood why they were doing it because of a resurrection later ( whether they were right or wrong I don’t know ) but the reason he used that example is it wasn’t foreign to them it’s something they practiced

he uses it to ask a rhetorical question to make his point

“ if you don’t believe in a resurrection , why bother getting baptized for someone who’s dead of thier already dead and they can’t rise its foolish thing to warring your time on and a false hope “

she’s just making the point if Christian’s don’t believe in a resurrection everything else we believe is built upon a false hope of a resurrection to eternal life

He surely isnt teaching them To do it or explaining to us why they did it and he also isn’t rebuking it sayong it’s a false doctrine

I agree with you it’s a wise thing you said , it’s something we have to just leave alone because of it was for us it would be well established with many witnesses in scripture and explained like everything else is

but Paul’s use of it is evident as to why he brought it up not for teaching of doctrine but for edification and correction about the resurrection

Paul is addressing the fact that there are people saying there is no resurrection... which is a huge concept error- so huge that it erases the point of Christianity.

If there is no resurrection, then Christ is not risen- therefore, he is among "the dead."
So when Paul asks what happens to those "Baptized for the dead", I think he said it that way so they knew he was talking about their hypothetical "dead Jesus".

What do those who are baptized for a dead-Jesus do? What do they get, or what benefit do they receive? Nothing! If Jesus isn't risen, then he isn't the messiah- we'd still be in our sins, and our religion would be FAKE!

The false teaching and practice of substitutionary-baptism for dead people probably comes from a misinterpretation and misapplication of this verse.

Adherents to hydro-baptismal regeneration will say Paul is showing the people who say
There is no resurrection that "they actually do believe in the resurrection even though they say they don't", because they're doing substitutionary baptism to save people: which, to me, is absurd. If they were doing this when Paul wrote this epistle, he would have told them to stop.

Paul is addressing the baptism of the Spirit and the baptism of fire.

Not water.

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know how people argue about “ water baptism v “ spirit baptism “ based on John saying this

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬

That's a reference to this

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what that’s all about “ receiving the promise of the holy ghost “

“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its just a way to say “ you’ll receive the holy ghost from Jesus “ that’s what being baptized in the spirit means . it isn’t a different baptism , it’s a result of believing Jesus promise of the gospel

The only baptism Christians practice is the one baptism for remission of sins , Jesus baptizes people with the Holy Ghost who believe

“ he will baptize you with the holy ghost” was John foretelling this which is how they received the spirit Jesus shed it forth , poured it our upon mankind like water

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats all John meant that he would baptize people in water for repentance and remission of sins , but Jesus would be the one to baptize the church with the Holy Ghost

Baptism of the spirit in prophecy

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18‬

It’s a promise Jesus made not a practice anyone practices it’s something Jesus can do and only Jesus can do because only he is able to shed his spirit into man

Water and spirit

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. I indeed have baptized you with water:

but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water

and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after jesus died and rose

you have the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ( water )

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

( and you have he shall baptize you with the spirit )
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Baptism of the spirit isn’t a different baptism it’s a result of faith the only baptism we have is done in water for repentance and remission of sins , Jesus and he alone baptizes with the Holy Ghost.

the only command to baptize in the church is for repentance and remission of sins that’s he only practice for baptism , Jesus sending his spirit from heaven is the baptism of the spirit

Here’s another account of a group of gentiles being baptized by the holy ghost nd with water for remission of sins in his amen

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

(Spirit a gift from Jesus And then water for remission )

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is no practice we do to baptize with spirit so they could t have been talking about anything other than baptism for remission

they seemed to believe they could have other peoples sins remitted who had already passed away if they got baptized on thier behalf but there just one baptism for the church baptism of spirit is something only Jesus does and can for believers it isn’t a practice we do but promise of faith

He was probably referencing a practice that was unauthorized but was so well-known people knew what he was talking about.

Baptisms is an elementary doctrine. Water, fire, by the Spirit, and of the Spirit.

The one baptism that is referenced is "by the Spirit". He alone determines our place in the Body of Christ.

Understanding the different baptisms makes the passage clear.

IF (big if) there was something missing in an important doctrine, God would have revealed it by now. Jesus said we would know the truth & the truth would make us free.
Some act as if God isn't active in His own kingdom....
Since God promised to provide all our needs in Christ Jesus, He would have done something about IF SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE.

I really don't see Paul refuting false doctrine with false doctrine.

He is writing as if talking about something they are still doing. If they were doing substitutional baptism; that would get them a rebuke. And if they were doing substitutional baptism AFTER he already told them not to- that would be an even more severe rebuke. Maybe even more than that; because a heresy like that would not be allowed to persist in the church.

brother explain to me how one is “ baptized “ by the spirit ?

Paul often used their confusions as teaching tools.

Acts 17:23
“For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.”

M


“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this isn’t an approval or instruction nor a rebuke that’s not his intent there’s no understanding of it here as a doctrine

it’s like saying “ if you don’t believe your going to get paid , why do you go to work to earn pay ? “

why practice baptism , repentance , obedience or anything at all if we don’t believe in everlasting life by a resurrection ?

what he’s saying is all about making the statement “ there is a resurrection of the dead everything we believe and do depends on it

Yes because the people he’s talking to understand in those terms they all understood about idol worship and many Gods Paul brings to en back to one God

He often does just what your saying it it’s all makings point

“Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even that relies on and ends up at a resurrection from the dead

to understand Paul you have to look at the points he’s making because he goes all around d uses several drivers t singular points like the resurrection

Just in that chapter he uses several examples but his singular intent is to convince thier faith of the resurrection

baptism is actually when we are baptized into Christs death

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s probably point that should be considered bieng baptized into death with Christ is how we are set free from death for sin

“The one baptism that is referenced is "by the Spirit".”

“The one baptism

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is Philip practicing the right baptism to be done in water upon a believer ?

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭

Is Peter commanding the one baptism to be done in water ? Even after they had received the baptism of the spirit just like at pentocost ? Or did Peter and Philip not understand about baptism for remission of sins that has always been done in water before and after the cross ?
Is the baptism jesus partook of the one baptism in Christianity ?

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭

is the baptism Jesus insisted of partaking in the one baptism ? And does the bible explain exceedingly well exactly what it’s purpose is ?

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.

( the spiritual baptism John spoke of ) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Keep following the direct single line of thinking

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

At he fulfillment of that promise he made them and what John said Jesus would do

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4‬

a those who had already been baptized for remission of sins and believed have now received receptions “baptism “ of the spirit not from each other or any practice they did but Jesus made good on his promise that after he died he would enter heaven and send the Holy Ghost into their hearts that’s all “baptism of the spirit is “ it’s the same thing as being filled with the spirit , receiving the promise of the spirit ect John the baptizer used the word baptism Peter is saying the exact same thing here

remember repentance and remission of sins would be preached ?

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( baptism of repentance for remission of sins same one Jesus and his apostles partook of )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”(spiritual baptism from jesus )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ( Jesus promise to believers ) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, ( for remission of sins ) which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? ( spiritual baptism Jesus gives us ) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-48‬ ‭KJV

a there’s just the one baptism for repentance and remission of sins it’s always been done in water and always been for the remission of sins of those who repent

airs meant to be an act of faith some thing you hear about , believe and act in

I hear that baptism is for the remission of my sins , I believe Gods word and I act in it by that belief

that’s why there’s an action performed first we have to hear about it , believe it and then we’re always going to act

instead like any matter in the Bible it becomes a huge controversy because so many insist what’s written isn’t actually to be believed

1 Corinthians 12:13 says “For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body.”

This is an elementary doctrine: a building block upon which we mature and grow. Not “elementary” as in “childish”, rather as first steps to understand the will of God.

This baptism, completed by the Spirit of God, Who knows the spirit of each person, is about knowing our destiny in God, known from the foundations of the world. This destiny is how God intends to live through us in time and space.

Understanding this, we would never have wondered if we had a ministry, we would have always known that we had a ministry and we would not simply settle for an adjunct of somebody else’s ministry. We would have always understood, then, that the leadership did not exist to articulate a ministry into which we could “fit”. But instead the leadership would exist to help us discover the ministry that God has for us and to assist us to take up that ministry and to walk in it. That being so, if we had seen that the baptism by the Spirit is our unique placement, by the Holy Spirit, into the body of Christ consistent with the will and plan of God, known for us from before the foundations of the world, then we would have also always known that there was only one body. And we would never consent to the division of the body because we would know that our personal role would be greatly enhanced, indeed would be fundamentally dependent upon, everybody else being who God made them to be.

In Jeremiah 1:4 this is written: “The word of the Lord came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Paul would write: “But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man…”

Even Jesus would say “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”

And about us it is written “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”

The point is that our lives are determined by God and, according to the principle of “one body”, dependent upon the whole body for our maturity and growth.

This is the point of the passage of 1 Corinthians as Paul corrects divisions in the church

“Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.”

And a bit later: “But God has put the body together…”

So, that placement of the members into the one body is completed by God via the Holy Spirit. Now, how can this be known?

By the Spirit also. Just like when the teachers and prophets were praying and the Spirit said “separate unto me Saul and Barnabas”…. and they became apostles and were recognized as apostles by the group.

Some times a person’s place is confirmed by another, as Paul did with Timothy and Titus. This is typically confirmed by the laying on of hands… another elementary doctrine.

That’s a good outline for now. I am limited to a tablet which makes it cumbersome to type. Perhaps I will add more tommorrow.

Grace and Peace

Well, water baptism is important as are all baptisms. There is no schism here, only consistency.