Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,821
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,821
rogerg said:
Christ paid for the crime in full - we do not and cannot - it was by role of as Saviour - He went to prison on our behalf. You are trying to place upon man something that he cannot achieve. The Bible tells us that we have been justified through Christ, not through ourselves.

[Rom 3:24 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[Rom 8:30 KJV] 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Who's faith is it? Gods or ours?

Romans 4
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.

It was Abrahams, as Abraham BELIEVE, and was born again (made righteous)

Galatians 3:11
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:24
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

That we MIGHT be justified by faith -

You can't get out of Jail until your redemption is cashed in.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,822
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,822
rogerg said:
Christ was faithful to the Father on our behalf. Did you not understand the verses I provided? "by the faith of Christ even we
have believed in Christ". Faith comes as a gift from Christ's faith, given through the fruit of the Spirit as a result of being born-again - it is not to become born again.
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yes he was

But you need to have faith in his provision. Just like abraham did.

Or else your still in jail
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#5,823
Jul 13, 2021
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#5,823
Everlasting-Grace said:
yes he was

But you need to have faith in his provision. Just like abraham did.

Or else your still in jail
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No. The whole foundation of the Bible, and what makes Christ the Saviour, is that He paid for and achieved it all on our behalf that so we
wouldn't have to, nor could we. It comes to us as completely as a gift.

Again, you either didn't read or didn't understand the verse. It demonstrates what I'm saying - that "by the faith of Christ (Christ's faith) even we have believed in Christ (our faith). From/by Christ's faith is our faith. Do you see two faiths in it and that one (ours) comes from the other (Christ's)?

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#5,824
Jul 13, 2021
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#5,824
Everlasting-Grace said:
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Click to expand...
Christ's faith, not ours.

Everlasting-Grace said:
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Click to expand...
Christ's faith, not ours.

Everlasting-Grace said:
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
Click to expand...
Christ's faith, not Abraham's. Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Any faith we might produce of ourselves has no righteousness within itself. Only Christ's faith was righteous.

Again, you confuse two different types of faiths as one. You need to understand where and when each is applicable.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,826
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,826
rogerg said:
No. The whole foundation of the Bible, and what makes Christ the Saviour, is that He paid for and achieved it all on our behalf that so we
wouldn't have to, nor could we. It comes to us as completely as a gift.
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Amen, You are 100% correct

But you STILL have to accept the gift. and you will only do it IF YOU TRUST
Again, you either didn't read or didn't understand the verse. It demonstrates what I'm saying - that "by the faith of Christ (Christ's faith) even we have believed in Christ (our faith). From/by Christ's faith is our faith. Do you see two faiths in it and that one (ours) comes from the other (Christ's)?

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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I read it perfectly. Just not your perverted translation.

God will not have faith for you

Abraham BELIEVED God. God did not believe for abraham.

We are saved by that same faith.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,827
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,827
rogerg said:
Christ's faith, not ours.



Christ's faith, not ours.



Christ's faith, not Abraham's. Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Any faith we might produce of ourselves has no righteousness within itself. Only Christ's faith was righteous.

Again, you confuse two different types of faiths as one. You need to understand where and when each is applicable.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
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Thats not what the word says

you are twisting the word of God.

Abraham BELIEVED.. It was not God who believed for abraham

try to think for once will you??
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,829
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,829
I feel sorry for some people

they will go to heaven thinking they were saved by grace through GODS faith and that God forced his salvation them..

and then have to answer why they believed God did not die for everyone so whoever will may come.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,831
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,831
and now a thumbs down:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:

God did not lie. Abraham BELIEVED God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Based on Abrahams faith not Gods.

Stop being afraid and trust God.. He will save you if you trust him..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,832
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,832
@rogerg Your friend could not answer me. maybe you can

Why was Israel able to chose to reject Christ against his own will?

Matthew 23:37

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#5,833
Feb 10, 2022
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#5,833
Everlasting-Grace said:
I feel sorry for some people

they will go to heaven thinking they were saved by grace through GODS faith and that God forced his salvation them..

and then have to answer why they believed God did not die for everyone so whoever will may come.
Click to expand...
Woah to them for placing stumbling blocks against people who desire the Truth.
 
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rogerg

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#5,834
Jul 13, 2021
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#5,834
Everlasting-Grace said:
God did not lie. Abraham BELIEVED God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Click to expand...
For that verse to mean what you think it means, it would instead have to say "righteousness was credited to Abraham for faith"
not that "faith was credited to him for righteousness".

Faith/belief was accounted to him. Do you see below that faith was reckoned to Abraham? You should not look at only one verse
to ascertain a biblical doctrine. Instead multiple verses need to be taken into consideration.


[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
 
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ButterflyJones

Active member
#5,835
Feb 5, 2023
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#5,835
I feel sorry for those who live to make contrary arguments against God's words.

When they arrive at the judgement they shall have to answer why they called Jesus a purveyor of lies.

And his answer will be what many on earth facing that obstinate blasphemy already expected. I never knew you.
And all the while those ones hearing this will still not understand even that. :(
 
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seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#5,836
Dec 9, 2011
14,141
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#5,836
rogerg said:
Christ's faith, not ours.



Christ's faith, not ours.



Christ's faith, not Abraham's. Christ's faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. Any faith we might produce of ourselves has no righteousness within itself. Only Christ's faith was righteous.

Again, you confuse two different types of faiths as one. You need to understand where and when each is applicable.

[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Phl 3:9 KJV]
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Click to expand...
Does the person have to do anything to receive the faith of CHRIST?
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
#5,837
Jul 13, 2021
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#5,837
Everlasting-Grace said:
@rogerg Your friend could not answer me. maybe you can

Why was Israel able to chose to reject Christ against his own will?

Matthew 23:37

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Click to expand...
Jerusalem is symbolic of a nation - the nation of Israel. Salvation, however, is only to individuals.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#5,839
Dec 18, 2021
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#5,839
rogerg said:
For that verse to mean what you think it means, it would instead have to say "righteousness was credited to Abraham for faith"
not that "faith was credited to him for righteousness".

Faith/belief was accounted to him. Do you see below that faith was reckoned to Abraham? You should not look at only one verse
to ascertain a biblical doctrine. Instead multiple verses need to be taken into consideration.


[Rom 4:9 KJV]
9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Click to expand...
Yes, Abrahams faith was reckoned to him for righteousness (christs righteousness)

why do you ignore half the passage?

3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his faith) was accounted to him for righteousness.”

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

This is not Gods faith,

its is Abahams faith

and everyone else who believes as did abraham.

you can;t cut verses out of a passage and make a doctrine out of them. you must read the whole context
 
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