Salvation is for the Whole World

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Jun 20, 2022
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It would have helped, if you had given me the book, chapter, and verse, but I am pretty sure that Nebuchadnezzar was a follower of God, by the statement he made in Dan 4:35. And all the inhabitants of earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

This verse, also, refutes the idea that mankind can resist his will.
And yet God doesn't desire for a single sinner to perish:
 

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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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It sure would help, if you would give scripture to back up your statements.

The Jewish nation are not all elect, (Rom 9:6) just some of them. God's elect are made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5-9).

No it wouldn't, you'd change it and say ALL doesn't mean ALL and whosoever doesn't mean whosoever and on and on. No it won't help because you add to Scripture.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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God tells his children to repent. When one of his children commits a sin, they separate themselves from God's fellowship, temporary, until they repent. The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) will not, and even cannot, repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws, that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness.
Why would you tell people that are "elected" to repent? They are already assured of heaven. Repent means to turn from sin. You're eternally saved, what are you repenting for?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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Most of these folks don’t know what they’re saying, don’t even understand their own doctrine. They deny being Arminian then affirm the 5 points of Arminianism 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

Look people, there is no new theology or doctrine, it’s all been discussed. You’re either some form of Calvinist or some form of Arminian, it’s that simple. Do your homework.
I have one form Christ follower, and I'm just simple enough to read the Word and believe what it says. I don't add to it like Calvin did. All means all. And this is not a laughing matter.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Look people, there is no new theology or doctrine, it’s all been discussed. You’re either
some form of Calvinist or some form of Arminian, it’s that simple. Do your homework.
I thought you knew about Molinism. .:unsure:
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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I have one form Christ follower, and I'm just simple enough to read the Word and believe what it says. I don't add to it like Calvin did. All means all. And this is not a laughing matter.
It is not a laughing matter.

It takes a cold heart to twist and add to scripture to the point where God actively denies the gift of salvation to people.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Most of these folks don’t know what they’re saying, don’t even understand their own doctrine. They deny being Arminian then affirm the 5 points of Arminianism 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

Look people, there is no new theology or doctrine, it’s all been discussed. You’re either some form of Calvinist or some form of Arminian, it’s that simple. Do your homework.
No not really.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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And yet God doesn't desire for a single sinner to perish:

Many scriptures that pertain to the wicked, including the one that you posted, are describing the wickedness of God's born again children, when they have been enticed to sin. When they sin, They do not lose their eternal inheritance, but they do lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Many scriptures that pertain to the wicked, including the one that you posted, are describing the wickedness of God's born again children, when they have been enticed to sin. When they sin, They do not lose their eternal inheritance, but they do lose their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent.
It is important that all scriptures must harmonize.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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I have one form Christ follower, and I'm just simple enough to read the Word and believe what it says. I don't add to it like Calvin did. All means all. And this is not a laughing matter.
Does “many” mean “all”?


Matthew 20:28

New King James Version

28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many .”
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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No it wouldn't, you'd change it and say ALL doesn't mean ALL and whosoever doesn't mean whosoever and on and on. No it won't help because you add to Scripture.
If you refuse to discuss scripture, then why are you on a bible discussion forum? Are you that unsure of your beliefs?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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If you refuse to discuss scripture, then why are you on a bible discussion forum? Are you that unsure of your beliefs?
I think the point is that every scripture that is brought forward is routinely interpreted in the false view of the doctrines of TULIP.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Does “many” mean “all”?


Matthew 20:28

New King James Version

28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many .”
By implication, many, meaning a multitude; in Mt 20:28, pollṓn must be taken as "for all" in view of 1Ti 2:6 which says "for all," (hupér [5228], for; pántōn [3843], all), each individual and all together. However, one may speak of all without distinction as opposed to all without exception. Christ's death, though sufficient for every individual person, was efficient for His elect, who, according to Rev 7:9,10, consist of every kind and class of humanity.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Why would you tell people that are "elected" to repent? They are already assured of heaven. Repent means to turn from sin. You're eternally saved, what are you repenting for?

Spiritual Israel, not the nation of Israel, is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9)

Spiritual Israel is representative of Jacob, of whom God changed his name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28 & Rom 9:11).

God blinded the eyes of most of spiritual Israel, from understanding the gospel, until they repent, due to their turning away from him, and worshiping idols. These are the "wicked that he has no pleasure in their death=separation. They are referred to in the scriptures as "the lost sheep of the household of Israel". (Jer 50:6, Matt 10:6, Matt 15:24).

He left in the midst of them a remnant that shall trust in the name of the Lord. The remnant's responsibility is to teach the disobedient spiritual Israel the error of their ways, and pray for their repentance. (Zeph 3:11-13).

When a child of God commits a sin, they die=separate themselves, temporary, from the fellowship of God, until they repent, they do, however, not lose their eternal inheritance.


The inspired scriptures are written to God's born again children, as instructions on how God wants his children to live their lives, while they sojourn here on earth. They are not written to the natural mankind, who cannot discern spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14) to tell them how to get themselves saved eternally.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I think the point is that every scripture that is brought forward is routinely interpreted in the false view of the doctrines of TULIP.
The point is that if the scriptures do not harmonize with each other, then you are not understanding the truth. We are not supposed to exclude scriptures that do not agree with our theology. If you think that I have a false view of Christ's doctrine, then it is your responsibility save me from my ignorance, in, patiently. proving me wrong , with scriptures.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Does “many” mean “all”?


Matthew 20:28

New King James Version

28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many .”

I agree, and the many are those that Jesus's Father gave him (John 6:39), (John 17:2), and as many as was ordained to eternal life, (Acts 11:16),
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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It is not a laughing matter.

It takes a cold heart to twist and add to scripture to the point where God actively denies the gift of salvation to people.

It takes a cold heart to say that God wants to save all of mankind to heaven, but that he just does not have the power over mankind to accomplish his will (Dan 4:35).

Eternal salvation was accomplished, not offered, by Jesus redeeming all of those that His Father gave to him on the cross, and his work was finished on the cross, as far as eternal redemption is concerned, (John 6:39).
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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I agree, and the many are those that Jesus's Father gave him (John 6:39), (John 17:2), and as many as was ordained to eternal life, (Acts 11:16),
The erogenous interpretation that "all" means everyone is a manifestation and result of the reader not following the biblical admonitions, that to gain correct understanding, one must first compare spiritual to spiritual, and that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. Until and unless that is understood and followed, all manner of absurd conclusions will be drawn by them.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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The erogenous interpretation that "all" means everyone is a manifestation and result of the reader not following the biblical admonitions, that to gain correct understanding, one must first compare spiritual to spiritual, and that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. Until and unless that is understood and followed, all manner of absurd conclusions will be drawn by them.
Correction - spell check messed me up - it should have been erroneous