Judah Smith’s Megachurch Faces Lawsuit for Forcing Staff to Tithe 10% of Wages

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2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,335
724
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#2
All I can say is hallelujah, it's about time. This makes me wonder how many other so-called churches out there a practicing the same thing.

https://julieroys.com/judah-smith-m...lawsuit-forcing-staff-tithe-10-percent-wages/

I wouldn't like them to automatically take 10% of my wages. I like distributing my tithes among several ministries according to God's leading and not to just one church. Even beyond the tithe, I would not want anyone but God to dictate to me where it should go.

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
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#3
*sigh*

  • there is no NT commandment to tithe. we are not under Moses.
  • the tithe under Moses was to care for the poor and the alien, and to provide for the Levite who had no land.
  • the tithe under Moses was purely agricultural, not monetary.
    • there was provision to exchange money for agricultural tithe, at a surplus exchange rate of 20% ((thus the law commands a tithe of 12% if paid in money rather than agricultural produce)) - and this must be paid in the shekel of the temple; no other currency was admissible

  • these are the facts.
  • you're doing it wrong, and you aren't supposed to be doing it at all.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
13,131
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#4
This makes me wonder how many other so-called churches out there a practicing the same thing.
at a guess, 80-90% of them, if not directly then indirectly.

if they do not directly demand "tithes" of their congregation than they indirectly "guilt" them into it through deceptive emotional manipulation. church is big business, and that's how the business operates.

we abuse the word "tithe" -- it carries the connotation of obligatory monetary donation in common usage but in Biblical usage it has no such connotation; it was only for the 12 tribes of Israel to supply the needs of the tribe of Levi and for the poor, and it was only given in terms of of produce and livestock, and thereby it was only required of those who had land and/or livestock.

therefore the widow who gave her last mite, who could not have possibly owned livestock or land elsewise her mite could not have been the last one, wasn't even under any obligation to give (("pay")) to the temple at all - the tithe is only required of those under Moses and only those under Moses wealthy enough to own land and/or livestock - and it is therefore that she gave more than any, because she gave what she was under no requirement to give, and it was all she had, and it was not coerced, and she gave it anyway without coercion or obligation.

church is a lucrative business. pastor is a cushy job. both are greatly abused for love of mammon.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,672
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#7

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#8

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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#9

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,633
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#10
While we are under no commandment to tithe, it is a good place to start. We are to be rich towards God and the place to begin is at the local church.
From what I gather from this site, finding a good local church seems difficult to find. If so, consider finding a few like minded people and praying to see if God might want you and a few others to begin a local church. You can start in someone's home and grow as the Lord leads.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
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#11
All I can say is hallelujah, it's about time. This makes me wonder how many other so-called churches out there a practicing the same thing.
This is extremely sad and puts another stain on Christianity. The issue is why did the staff not resign to begin with, or was that demand a part of their employment agreement, and they agreed at the start?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,943
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#12
there's a church around here that required you to tithe 10% & if you wanted to get married in that church, you had to agree to tithe 10% also. you know what they say, "for the LOVE of money is the root of all evil....."
The Mormon Church has always demanded this from their adherents. But this is a form of bondage.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,621
2,208
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#13
Church staff usually does tithe back to the church...so usually if you work for a church you auto deduct 10% and figure it from there.

If the pastoral staff doesn't tithe its usually grounds for termination.

Personally I tend to think that it's unfair considering the hours they work.


But it's considered faithless for pastoral staff to not have faith in the institution they work for...considering that they are leadership in the institution.

But the regular staff like janitorial/maintenance and administrative usually isn't required to do so. They may even attend church elsewhere. So if this church was forcing giving...it's not giving but a tax. And God loves a cheerful giver...not using extortion for the "gift".
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,421
7,249
113
#14
at a guess, 80-90% of them, if not directly then indirectly.

if they do not directly demand "tithes" of their congregation than they indirectly "guilt" them into it through deceptive emotional manipulation. church is big business, and that's how the business operates.

we abuse the word "tithe" -- it carries the connotation of obligatory monetary donation in common usage but in Biblical usage it has no such connotation; it was only for the 12 tribes of Israel to supply the needs of the tribe of Levi and for the poor, and it was only given in terms of of produce and livestock, and thereby it was only required of those who had land and/or livestock.

therefore the widow who gave her last mite, who could not have possibly owned livestock or land elsewise her mite could not have been the last one, wasn't even under any obligation to give (("pay")) to the temple at all - the tithe is only required of those under Moses and only those under Moses wealthy enough to own land and/or livestock - and it is therefore that she gave more than any, because she gave what she was under no requirement to give, and it was all she had, and it was not coerced, and she gave it anyway without coercion or obligation.
Well....you might not like the sound of this, but there is a radically different, sobering and far more sinister view of this incident:

Yes, the fact of the matter is that indeed, the poor widow "cast in more than they all". But it is unlikely that this escapade is recorded to pay homage, credit or endorse the act of the widow. It is more likely an observation meant as an INDICTMENT of the pervasively corrupt and ungodly nature of that latter-day system of worship, which was contrary to the spirit of the Law.

It may well be that this widow WAS (whether subtly or overtly) being SYSTEMATICALLY coerced, brainwashed, browbeat, under the overarching bootheel of the prevailing religious authorities. The Scribes/Pharisees knew better, and should have maintained order in this regard. Yet Jesus was quite explicit in saying that they were NOT keeping the auspices of the Law in good faith......they were negligent, derelict, exploitative.

Mat 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Luk 20:47
Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Further to the point: as we all know, the Sadducees were getting filthy rich on the moedim rituals (appointed times) year in and year out. Religion was a franchise fully entrenched and sanctioned by the religious leaders. With no relief in sight.

Jhn 2:15
When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.
Jhn 2:16
And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!”

And I ask you to think about this: is exploitation of gullible and well-meaning elderly happening in detestably epic fashion TODAY?
YES. Of course it is.
So it was back then!

And many people miss the fact that JUDGEMENT was uttered immediately after this incident, ending the bogus system altogether.

Luk 21:1
And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
Luk 21:2
And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luk 21:3
And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luk 21:4
For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Luk 21:5
And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

---JUDGEMENT---

Luk 21:6
As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,335
724
113
#15
*sigh*

  • there is no NT commandment to tithe. we are not under Moses.
  • the tithe under Moses was to care for the poor and the alien, and to provide for the Levite who had no land.
  • the tithe under Moses was purely agricultural, not monetary.
    • there was provision to exchange money for agricultural tithe, at a surplus exchange rate of 20% ((thus the law commands a tithe of 12% if paid in money rather than agricultural produce)) - and this must be paid in the shekel of the temple; no other currency was admissible

  • these are the facts.
  • you're doing it wrong, and you aren't supposed to be doing it at all.

I'm happy to tithe to the Lord and any extra to ministries that He brings to attention. The giving has nothing to do with salvation, but it is now about my relationship with Him. God is always helping me grow in my walk with Him and provides for me in so many ways. So if someone loves you and takes such good care of you, wouldn't you want to be thoughtful toward them and generous to them as well? That's what this is all about.

And God has never discouraged it. I've never once have Him lay on my heart, "Oh no, 2ndTime, don't give to any of the ministries I've set up. You don't have to participate in advancing my kingdom through tithes and offerings!" :)