Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture
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No brother, it is not a false Israel. Remember the dry bones. God gathers Israel from where He has scattered them, which is happening now. Then as brother Evmur has said, the tribulation will come. It will be like a refining fire. What does Romans 11 say? Israel will be saved. They will come to recognize the Messiah and their temporary blindness will be lifted.
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Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Why do so many Christians want an earthly kingdom? He has told us His kingdom is not of this world.
Why do so many Christians want an earthly kingdom? He has told us His kingdom is not of this world.
whether you see the Kingdom of Heaven as now established or whether it is yet to be established determines the interpretation here.
Spiritually, mystically but not manifestly the Kingdom is here now established in the hearts of the born again. To us it is manifest but not to the world.
It is to become manifest in the Millennium. It is THAT manifest kingdom Ac lusts after.
Spiritually, mystically but not manifestly the Kingdom is here now established in the hearts of the born again. To us it is manifest but not to the world.
It is to become manifest in the Millennium. It is THAT manifest kingdom Ac lusts after.
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L
I just read chapter 9-11 again trying to figure out where we are not understanding eachother. You really do have to read all three together. Even at that, chapter 11 still maintains that the portion of them that is saved for the promise is by faith.
Their reward is our reward. We are part of the promise to Abraham. Of coarse there are Semites who are saved, were saved and will be saved. But there are not two different events or dispensations, and it has nothing to do with the nation state we see today. And the promise to Abraham is fulfilled in its entirety through Jesus Christ, even while He has not finished fulfilling, He will when He returns and it will be all who have come to the faith, be it sons according to the flesh (it will be their faith that confirms them as sons) or the sons of adoption (also confirmed by their faith). We will all inherit together.
Their reward is our reward. We are part of the promise to Abraham. Of coarse there are Semites who are saved, were saved and will be saved. But there are not two different events or dispensations, and it has nothing to do with the nation state we see today. And the promise to Abraham is fulfilled in its entirety through Jesus Christ, even while He has not finished fulfilling, He will when He returns and it will be all who have come to the faith, be it sons according to the flesh (it will be their faith that confirms them as sons) or the sons of adoption (also confirmed by their faith). We will all inherit together.
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In what I said I was not describing the Kingdom of God but rather the events unfolding on the earth that is (best to use Jesus words here) ,,, it " looks like a Lamb but..." which is I think a good description of what we should be looking for when examining that beast kingdom,, it looks like it is of the Lamb,,,its name sounds like it's the Lamb,, it builds the Temple in the right place but it speaks like a dragon? Hmm seems as if Jesus is saying it's going to pretend to be the Lamb and dress like it and walk like it ect. I'll leave it at that.
I appreciate your patience and trying to reach an understanding. It's just so simple though. God made promises to some of His kids. We don't stop being His kids because He has other kids, nor vise versa. It's just that He has made promises to them before He made promises to us. That doesn't mean we are from different trees. All one tree, just there are promises He made to the Jews, the first kids, that don't pertain to us.
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It's going to sound like a broken record here but it starts with the unconditional and everlasting covenant God made. It has nothing to do with Scofield.
Unbreakable Covenant
We need to be firmly aware that the Abrahamic covenant is NOT the same as the Mosaic covenant (the Law given at Sinai), aka the “old covenant” that was superseded by the new covenant. It’s much older and deeper. Most significantly, the Mosaic covenant is conditional, but the Abrahamic covenant is unconditional. It’s secure no matter what because it’s based on God’s faithfulness to Himself, not anything man does or doesn’t do.
When God affirms the covenant with Abraham a few chapters later, He actually puts Abraham to sleep and passes between the covenant offerings Himself (Ge. 15:12-20). Traditionally, the two parties were supposed to do that together. By not letting Abraham participate and doing it all Himself, God was saying, “You’re not making any promises; I’m making all the promises, and I’m going to be faithful to this covenant because of Me, not because of you.” This is the nature of God that our faith is based on! As 2 Timothy 2:13 says, “if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.”
Jeremiah 31 makes the distinction between the new covenant and the Mosaic (not Abrahamic) covenant explicit:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt… I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people… they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(Je. 31:31-34)
(Je. 31:31-34)
God contrasts the new covenant with the Mosaic covenant (the Law given when He brought them out of Egypt), not the Abrahamic covenant. The new covenant is God’s way of making Israel righteous so He can fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. Like Paul says in Romans 11:26 that “All Israel will be saved,” God says to Jeremiah that “they shall all know Me.”
God swears that His covenant with Israel to make them a nation forever is secure.“Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD of hosts is his name: ‘If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.’ Thus says the LORD: ‘If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.'”
Replacement theology argues that because the majority of Israel rejected Jesus, God not only judged them with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD but has permanently divorced them from being His people. In Jeremiah, God rejects this in the strongest terms, saying that He will never cast off Israel because of their sin.
Israel has been waiting for this promised King, the Anointed One, to come reign on David’s throne in Jerusalem, bring perfect peace to those who dwell in the land of Israel, and bring blessing to the nations by establishing the kingdom of God on earth forever. No wonder they were confused by Jesus’ first coming! They weren’t wrong; God just had a different timing than they were expecting. But He will come again, and He will do all He said.
Land
Abraham and his descendants will permanently inherit the full extent of the promised land as an “everlasting possession” (Ge. 15:18-21, 17:8). This space is far larger than Israel currently occupies. Currently, 47% of Jews worldwide live in Israel. The prophets foretold of a future time that they would dwell in the land securely, without fear of attack (Isa. 32:18). The problem is, they can’t unless they are walking in righteous relationship with God. He warned them of exile when He gave the law to Moses (Lev. 26:27-33). Until the people are completely righteous, they can’t fully possess their inheritance forever (Isa. 32:17-18, 60:21).
Descendants
God not only promises Abraham lots of descendants, but that the nation as well as Abraham’s name would be “great” (Ge. 12:2). The prophets describe a day when Jerusalem will be a praise in the earth and everyone will be in awe at the glory of God that clearly rests on her (Isa. 61:9, 62:1-7). This hasn’t happened yet, and we have the same problem here as with the land. They cannot be “great” until they are righteous (Pr. 14:34).
Blessing to the Nations
Jesus’ birth through the line of David was a big part of this fulfillment, but the day of full salvation/blessing/restoration for the nations hasn’t yet dawned. When Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth as the Jewish King ruling from Jerusalem, the nations of the earth will be more blessed than they ever dreamed possible!
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It is not Christians who want an earthly Kingdom, but it is God and Christ who have DECREED that there will indeed be an everlasting Kingdom of God on earth.
People love to take that verse out of context and claim that Christ will not have His Kingdom on earth. But those words were spoken in the context of the upcoming crucifixion. That was not the time to be literally establishing His Kingdom on earth, since the Gospel Age would follow the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.
And that is why He responded to the apostles in this manner (Acts 1:6-8): When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
People love to take that verse out of context and claim that Christ will not have His Kingdom on earth. But those words were spoken in the context of the upcoming crucifixion. That was not the time to be literally establishing His Kingdom on earth, since the Gospel Age would follow the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.
And that is why He responded to the apostles in this manner (Acts 1:6-8): When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
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Ah no. this was the second beast.
The Beast which came out of the sea [Gentile world] is the Ac ... horrid through and through]
The second beast came out of the ground [Israel] he is a false prophet, he has the appearance of a lamb but is in cahoots with the dragon, as well as being a prophet he may also be a future Israeli political leader. He it is who will engineer the 7 year pact with Ac.
He is forerunner of Ac as John the Baptist was forerunner to Jesus.
He will cause many to believe in Ac. if it were possible he would deceive the elect. He will arrive first chronologically and ...
... I am expecting him real soon.
The Beast which came out of the sea [Gentile world] is the Ac ... horrid through and through]
The second beast came out of the ground [Israel] he is a false prophet, he has the appearance of a lamb but is in cahoots with the dragon, as well as being a prophet he may also be a future Israeli political leader. He it is who will engineer the 7 year pact with Ac.
He is forerunner of Ac as John the Baptist was forerunner to Jesus.
He will cause many to believe in Ac. if it were possible he would deceive the elect. He will arrive first chronologically and ...
... I am expecting him real soon.
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Did God want a king or did He give into the people back at king Saul's time? We will not agree on the understanding of the verse posted.
The Israelites brought on their destruction wanting to be like everybody else. They wanted a king like David they rejected God's choice His Son.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
They way back they rejected the leader ship of the High Priest and we today have a 'Higher Priests' in Christ Jesus.
From the mouth of God
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
The Israelites brought on their destruction wanting to be like everybody else. They wanted a king like David they rejected God's choice His Son.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
They way back they rejected the leader ship of the High Priest and we today have a 'Higher Priests' in Christ Jesus.
From the mouth of God
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
This is totally irrelevant, but I will show you that what I stated was true even then. God was King over Israel from the start, but the Israelites clamored for a human king so they got one. However God and Christ will indeed rule over Israel in the future, and your misapplication of Scripture will be to your own detriment.
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I have never seen a more stubborn mindset when it comes to replacement/covenant/ supersessionism/ fulfillment theology. This horrible false doctrine has been rebranded so many times since Luther wrote "The Jews and their Lies" one of the most Antisemitic pieces of literature ever written that led eventually to the Holocaust. I don't believe everyone who espouses this theology is Antisemitic. I believe people don't truly understand the history and why this is so wrong. But you can't blow it out with dynamite , it is insidious.
It starts with ignorance of and/or allegorizing the prophecies of the eternal Kingdom of God in the OT. After the Jews were dispersed and many went to Europe, the Europeans became Anti-Semitic. But the Reformers did not go back to the Bible regarding the future of Israel. They adopted the Catholic notions about Amillennialism and no future for Israel or the Jews.
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