Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,443
584
113
nope 1 Cor 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
John Gill on 1 Cor 2:7

But we speak the wisdom of God,.... Not of men, not of the wise politicians, the learned philosophers and Rabbins; that which human wisdom has no hand in forming, nor in revealing, nor in propagating, and which is disliked and disapproved of by it: the Gospel is the sole produce of divine wisdom, and in which there is a glorious display of it; even in those doctrines which are the most charged with folly, as salvation by a crucified Christ, justification by his righteousness, pardon by his blood, satisfaction by his sacrifice, &c.
in a mystery; it is mysterious wisdom. The Gospel is full of mysteries; there is the mystery of God, of a trinity of persons in the divine essence; the mystery of Christ, of his person, as God manifest in the flesh, of his divine sonship, and incarnation in the womb of a virgin; the mystery of the Spirit's grace in regeneration, of the saints' union to Christ, and communion with him, the resurrection of the same body, the change of living saints at Christ's coming, with many others:

even the hidden wisdom; the Gospel lay hid in God, in the thoughts of his heart, in the deep things of his mind, the counsels of his will, and purposes of his grace; it was hid in Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge; it was hid under the types and shadows of the ceremonial law; and is hid in the Scriptures, which must be diligently searched for it, as for hidden treasures. It was hid from angels, and from Adam, until revealed; it was in some measure hid from the Jews under the former dispensation, to whom it was made known; and in some sense from believers, under the present dispensation, who as yet know it but in part; and is entirely hid from natural men, even from the most wise and prudent among them. This epithet expresses the preciousness, secrecy, and also security of the Gospel; hidden things being commonly of value, and being kept secret, are also safe; hidden and secret wisdom has been always esteemed, both by Greeks and Jews: hence that saying (u) of the latter,

"he that would be rich in learning of the law, "and that wisdom which is hidden", in a hidden and secret place, should hide and secrete himself from the children of men.''

The apostle adds,

which God ordained before the world. The Egyptians and Grecians boasted much of the "earliness" of their wisdom, but neither of them are to be mentioned with the Gospel for the antiquity of it; it is the birth of God's counsels of old, the produce of his purposes, which he purposed in Christ before the world was; a scheme of things he drew in his eternal mind; it is a transcript of the council of peace and covenant of grace, which were from everlasting; what the Jews (w) say of the law, is much more true of the Gospel,

"that it was treasured up with God (they say two thousand years, and sometimes nine hundred and seventy four ages), before the world was created;''

and often speak of it as one of the seven things created before the world was (x). Moreover, this was to our glory; under the present dispensation, which by reason of the Gospel has a glory in it surpassing the former; it is to the glory both of the ministers of it, whose honour it is to be employed in preaching it, and in being by it the instruments of converting such who will be their glory another day, and to the glory of all believers who are by it called to the obtaining of the glory of Christ Jesus.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,443
584
113
I have read and I would think that you should have the courage to elaborate since you made the accusation.
Then you should know, and I have elaborated. That shows me you cant read with comprehension. Read
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,443
584
113
The Gospel can be understood by people and on the basis that they can understand it they can also reject it.
No people are not regenerated first in order to understand.
The natural man cant understand it spiritually, because it must be spiritually discerned. Explain to us how a spiritually dead person, without the Spirit, can spiritually understand the Gospel. Not naturally understand it, but spiritually understand it.

It must must be Spiritually understood to bear Spiritual fruit such as faith, Jesus said Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now explain please.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,332
2,461
113
Then you should know, and I have elaborated. That shows me you cant read with comprehension. Read
@Snacks has the true Christ Jesus, full of grace and truth, you sir do not, so no he is not an idolator.

Christ Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind, and each person can receive or reject His free gift of salvation by grace through faith!!

He suffered for all, even knowing many would reject Him.

This is the Christ of scripture, not the one you portray who only died for those He chooses to redeem and denying salvation to others based on what, no one knows, just luck of the draw I guess. smh!!!

That is indeed a false Christ!!

So who is an idolator, really?
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
He suffered for all, even knowing many would reject Him.
@HeIsHere Thank you for your kind words and for defending the Gospel Truth. ❤️

The story of the Phoenician woman’s faith as found in Mark 7 shows that Jesus died for everyone, even though many would reject Him.

The spirit of these calvinists is not of God. Remember that while conversing with them.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,443
584
113
@Snacks has the true Christ Jesus, full of grace and truth, you sir do not, so no he is not an idolator.

Christ Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind, and each person can receive or reject His free gift of salvation by grace through faith!!

He suffered for all, even knowing many would reject Him.

This is the Christ of scripture, not the one you portray who only died for those He chooses to redeem and denying salvation to others based on what, no one knows, just luck of the draw I guess. smh!!!

That is indeed a false Christ!!

So who is an idolator, really?
Christ didnt die for anyone that doesnt come to faith in Him, since His Death effects Faith in Him, if you dont believe that, you believe in a false christ which makes you an idolater.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,443
584
113
@HeIsHere Thank you for your kind words and for defending the Gospel Truth. ❤️

The story of the Phoenician woman’s faith as found in Mark 7 shows that Jesus died for everyone, even though many would reject Him.

The spirit of these calvinists is not of God. Remember that while conversing with them.
If you believe that Christ died for people who are never saved, which we know that shall be the case, then you deny the saving efficacy of His death, thats a false christ.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
If you believe that Christ died for people who are never saved, which we know that shall be the case, then you deny the saving efficacy of His death, thats a false christ.
Jesus offered eternal life to the young, rich man, and the young, rich man rejected Jesus. We are not puppets; we have free will, a concept foreign to your calvinistic ideologies.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,851
641
113
I can answer ... and I have answered ... you reject ... then claim "major cop out" and/or that I "can't answer that".

The "major cop out" is the one who rejects the truth of Scripture ... conflates the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom ... manipulates Scripture by changing active verbs to passive (remember that fiasco? ... it was just a couple days ago) or changes what is written in Scripture like you did here:






when the verse clearly states that strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil - Heb 5:14.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
Oh Plaaeeese - this is a simple question for you to resolve. You either can post what the mystery is - the one not covered by the gospel - or you can't. If you can then why don't do so one last time, cause I must have missed your other posting of it, and then we all can know it - it would be very Christian and edifying of you to do so.
Yes, I remember your attempt(s) to invalidate scripture by ignoring its stated rules of interpretation,
thereby causing you to come to numerous incorrect conclusions - which is something that you often do.
Remember this?

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Guess, you didn't want to recognize that God works within someone to bring forth His desired ends for them to include their "turning".

Anyway, so as not to get diverted, why do you just answer my first question.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
1 Cor 2:14 is about the Gospel, so is 2:7 and the natural man cannot understand it, not in a spiritual sense, because it must be spiritually discerned.
Because you conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom, you reveal that you do not understand the mystery, the hidden wisdom and, quite possibly, the gospel.
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
If you believe that Christ died for people who are never saved, which we know that shall be the case, then you deny the saving efficacy of His death, thats a false christ.
If you do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam, then you deny the saving efficacy of His death because you believe His sacrifice was insufficient to cover the sin of all mankind.
.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
You either can post what the mystery is
I can and I did ... you rejected then just as you reject now.




rogerg said:
I must have missed your other posting of it
you didn't miss it ... you gave it a red X.





rogerg said:
it would be very Christian and edifying of you to do so.
it would be "very Christian and edifying of you" to go back through the pages of this thread, find it, and re-read it.




rogerg said:
Yes, I remember your attempt(s) to invalidate scripture by ignoring its stated rules of interpretation,
thereby causing you to come to numerous incorrect conclusions - which is something that you often do.
Your rejection of the truth of Scripture does not equal that of which you accuse me.




rogerg said:
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Guess, you didn't want to recognize that God works within someone to bring forth His desired ends for them to include their "turning".
interesting you refuse to acknowledge the verse just before Phil 2:13:

Philippians 2:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

"Guess, you didn't want to recognize that God works within someone" as they work out [their] own salvation.




rogerg said:
Anyway, so as not to get diverted, why do you just answer my first question.
Since you already have what you need, why don't you just go back through the discussion and re-read to find your answer.
.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
Christ didnt die for anyone that doesnt come to faith in Him, since His Death effects Faith in Him, if you dont believe that, you believe in a false christ which makes you an idolater.
More BALONEY from brightfame52 as usual. Same old broken record. But since you have hardened your heart against the true Gospel, you will never repent.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,851
641
113
interesting you refuse to acknowledge the verse just before Phil 2:13:

Philippians 2:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

"Guess, you didn't want to recognize that God works within someone" as they work out [their] own salvation.
No, that means regardless of where one might begin, that God will nevertheless bring them to His desired ends for them.
Did you miss the "both to will and to do" "of his good pleasure" parts?
That is, God will direct a person's will so that they desire to, and do, what He wants them to do.
That includes "turning"
Try to read more closely next time.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,152
3,697
113
This is what I know:

Ps 103:19

The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

1 Pet 3:22

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

And if you believe anything less, its theological athiesm
Yes or no...Is Satan the god of this world?

Yes or no...Is Satan the ruler of the darkness?

Yes or no...Is Satan the prince of the power of the air?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,104
30,232
113
If you believe that Christ died for people who are never saved, which we know that
shall be the case, then you deny the saving efficacy of His death, thats a false christ.
Jesus' death is sufficient to cover the sins of the whole world which He died for, but efficacious
only unto those who by grace through faith believe in His shed righteous blood for the forgiveness
of sins in order to be reconciled to God, escape the second death, and attain to life ever after.