Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

reneweddaybyday · Apr 29, 2023

... after the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (Matt 24:15) is seen ...

Matthew 24:

23 Then [after the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel] if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

The true believer is not going to be deceived by false prophets when they say lo, here is Christ because the true believer studies God's Word and the Holy Spirit brings to remembrance that which is written in Scripture concerning the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

However, as you can see from your stated verse, there shall be great signs and wonders performed by these false prophets and many will believe them.
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brightfame52 · Apr 29, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

There are false christs being preached by false prophets, those christs that died for every human being is a false christ.

The True Christ of scripture came only to save a particular people, His People from their sins Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

They were His People first, given to Him by the Father Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

If you not preaching about this Jesus, its a false jesus

fredoheaven · Apr 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

Seems the natural man cannot be saved, but all are in a natural state and all are sinners by the way. If you used this proof text then there was in no way the death of Christ atone not even one.

brightfame52 · Apr 29, 2023

[QUOTE="fredoheaven, post: 5066194, member: 231643"]Seems the natural man cannot be saved, but all are in a natural state and all are sinners by the way. If you used this proof text then there was in no way the death of Christ atone not even one.[/QUOTE]
Wrong the natural man can be saved. When he is saved by Christ and His Spirit then he can spiritually understand the Gospel, because when he was saved, he no longer was a mere natural man, but became spiritual.

reneweddaybyday · Apr 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

ThereRoseaLamb · Apr 29, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Us 4 and no more. They only want certain people in heaven. They believe they are the chosen, not the Jews. One day they are going to get a really bad surprise. smh

rogerg · Apr 29, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

Here - they aren't just because they are Jews:

[Rom 9:6-8 KJV]
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

ThereRoseaLamb · Apr 29, 2023

rogerg said:

The Jews are a chosen nation before God, they never stopped being a chosen nation. There is a remnant still today as Romans 11 points out. We are grafted in to that tree. God has promised to put the Jews in their own land and restore them again, read the end of Romans 11. They are not saved because of their bloodline, they are saved the same way we are. But Romans 9-11 never replaced the Jews with the church.

rogerg · Apr 29, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

No, they're not. Did you read the verses I included - it is spelled out quite clearly there - as clearly as can be: only the children of the promise are the seed and only the elect are of the promise, so, the elect are the seed. Israel, as a nation, was divorced from
its favored status by God, never to return to it.

rogerg · Apr 29, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

This verse in Rom 11?

[Rom 11:32 KJV] 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Who are the "all"? They are the elect, those whom Father gave individually to Christ.

So, are you saying that all of the Jews of nation of Israel, from the beginning to the end, saved?

reneweddaybyday · Apr 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

God does not tell us the natural man must "spiritually understand the Gospel".

Romans 1:

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul preached the gospel ... it is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes.

Rather than focusing on the one who believes ... try focusing on that which God tells us which brings salvation.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

...

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? ...

vs 9 – the words "thou shalt confess" are translated from the Greek word homologeō which means "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"); confess.

vs 10 – the word "confession" is also translated from homologeō.

vs 13-15 – these verses explain how the natural man hears about the Lord Jesus Christ in order to homologeo (speak the same thing) and believe in his or her heart ... God sends the born again ones out into the world to preach the gospel ... the born again believer speaks to others ... the others hear the gospel ... and they either confess with [their] mouth and believe in [their] heart (Rom 10:9-10) or they reject as they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

For you to continue to insist that when a person believes as instructed in Scripture is somehow "works" on the part of the believer is complete nonsense because Rom 1:16 clearly states that it is the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... not the faith of the one believing.

I know that won't stop you from continuing to insist that I (and others) are somehow preaching salvation based on "works", but your argument is completely and utterly without merit when the light of Scripture exposes your error.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

brightfame52 · Apr 29, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Those apply to the particular people He came to save, not everybody. So you believe in a false christ

brightfame52 · Apr 29, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

God does not tell us the natural man must "spiritually understand the Gospel".

Romans 1:

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul preached the gospel ... it is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes.

Rather than focusing on the one who believes ... try focusing on that which God tells us which brings salvation.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

...

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? ...

vs 9 – the words "thou shalt confess" are translated from the Greek word homologeō which means "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"); confess.

vs 10 – the word "confession" is also translated from homologeō.

vs 13-15 – these verses explain how the natural man hears about the Lord Jesus Christ in order to homologeo (speak the same thing) and believe in his or her heart ... God sends the born again ones out into the world to preach the gospel ... the born again believer speaks to others ... the others hear the gospel ... and they either confess with [their] mouth and believe in [their] heart (Rom 10:9-10) or they reject as they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

For you to continue to insist that when a person believes as instructed in Scripture is somehow "works" on the part of the believer is complete nonsense because Rom 1:16 clearly states that it is the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... not the faith of the one believing.

I know that won't stop you from continuing to insist that I (and others) are somehow preaching salvation based on "works", but your argument is completely and utterly without merit when the light of Scripture exposes your error.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

No natural man can understand the Gospel Spiritually, for it must be Spiritually diserned 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Cameron143 · Apr 29, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

You forgot shut the door. Us 4, no more. Shut the door.

ThereRoseaLamb · Apr 29, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I don't know if anyone goes back so far as BJ Thomas. He used to sing a song titled "
Would They Love Him Down in Shreveport"? It always made me think when I heard it.

Cameron143 · Apr 29, 2023

ThereRoseaLamb said:

I'm not familiar with that song. But I am familiar with his hit Ode to Eyore. Most know it by it's more popular title...Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head.

reneweddaybyday · Apr 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

yes ... as shown in the verses ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. You do the same thing with the verses I posted as you do in insisting that "the natural man must "spiritually" understand the gospel" ... which means a person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which he or she is born again. You add a little to Scripture here ... change a little there ...

In your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly, scout's honor, born again???

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
.
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reneweddaybyday · Apr 29, 2023

brightfame52 said:

.

brightfame52 · Apr 30, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

yes ... as shown in the verses ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. You do the same thing with the verses I posted as you do in insisting that "the natural man must "spiritually" understand the gospel" ... which means a person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which he or she is born again. You add a little to Scripture here ... change a little there ...

In your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly, scout's honor, born again???

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
.
.

Those apply only to Gods Elect.

brightfame52 · Apr 30, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

Thats you !

Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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