Remember Lot's Wife

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oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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The children in the wilderness longed for the Garlic and leeks of Egypt.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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you are missing the point that of the 14 times Christ says to remember something literally every one of them is given as a positive encouragement; not one of them is a threat of damnation.
Remember Esau.
Hebrews 12:16
“Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.”
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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so your point is that Lot longed for the wicked city of Zoar . . . ?
Actually, that's not my point. I have no need of a point. Lot desired the easier way, just as he always had, and the angel granted it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Dearest post... the text does not say what you claimed it did.

Though I do find it odd, you start a post by saying the text does not say something,
and then procede to claim the text says something it plainly does not. That is all.
You do not agree that the mob surrounding her house is threatening her?

Or you do not agree that 'we will do worse to you' indicates the threat of a very unpleasant death?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Remember Esau.
Hebrews 12:16
“Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.”
so you are saying Lot is effectively selling his birthright to go to the wicked city of Zoar in the plain instead of obeying the command to go to the mountains?
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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In the context of Sodom& Gomorrah, I think the salt is bad- in the sense that salt turns farmland into wastelands.

22Then the generation to come—your sons who follow you and the foreigner who comes from a distant land—will see the plagues of the land and the sicknesses the LORD has inflicted on it. 23All its soil will be a burning waste of sulfur and salt, unsown and unproductive, with no plant growing on it, just like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in His fierce anger.

So, when she turned back, she became part of the wasteland.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You do not agree that the mob surrounding her house is threatening her?

Or you do not agree that 'we will do worse to you' indicates an unpleasant death?
I highlighted what I disagreed with, and told you why. Here it is again:

they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.

The text does not say that. You start a post by admonishing another for assuming things
the text does not say, and then proceed to make claims based on things the text does not say.


I cannot fathom you find this too difficult to understand.

Why do you try to make this into me disagreeing with what the text actually does say?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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In the context of Sodom& Gomorrah, I think the salt is bad- in the sense that salt turns farmland into wastelands.

22Then the generation to come—your sons who follow you and the foreigner who comes from a distant land—will see the plagues of the land and the sicknesses the LORD has inflicted on it. 23All its soil will be a burning waste of sulfur and salt, unsown and unproductive, with no plant growing on it, just like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in His fierce anger.

So, when she turned back, she became part of the wasteland.
purification.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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they are promising to torture and murder her on sight.

The text does not say that
The text says they are threatening a worse fate than what they intend for Lot's guests.

Judges 19 tells us what they intend for them: brutal abuse to the point of ultimately killing them.

If they are indeed threatening "worse" than this how can it be anything less than the threat of tortuous murder?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The text says they are threatening a worse fate than what they intend for Lot's guests.

Judges 19 tells us what they intend for them: brutal abuse to the point of ultimately killing them.

If they are indeed threatening "worse" than this how can it be anything less than the threat of tortuous murder?
this is a logical inference from what the text actually says.

There is however nothing in the text indicating that Mrs. Lot 'longs for a sinful life of garlic and leeks' - that presumption makes absolutely no sense to explain her actions unless we assume she is the stupidest person who ever lived and can't remember what happened 30 seconds prior.

There are really big logical holes in the standard explanation of this account.

i do not imagine her to be an idiot.
i presume that righteous Lot married an intelligent woman of good character.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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And He said to the disciples,
The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. Remember Lot’s wife. Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.
And answering they said to Him,
“Where, Lord?”
And He said to them,
Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.
(Luke 17:22-37)


why Lot's wife?
in this specific context, why Lot's wife?
what is it about her that we should remember?


something specific to her, specific to what these Hebrew men would have known immediately about her, right?
not something that could have been said about anyone else, but something about Lot's wife in particular?


what is it about Lot's wife we should remember, and why?
in the context of what Christ is saying and who He's saying it to?
a lot and his wife were warned about an impending fiery destruction they were told don’t look back to your possessions just go and flee

as they left she looked back to her old life that was being destroyed

“Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭19:24-26‬ ‭

Christian’s have also been warned about an impending fiery end to come

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10‬ ‭

and not to draw back and look to the old ways like she did and perished

“and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. ( hypergrace doesn’t allow this to be true )


He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. ( hypergracers doesn’t allow this they say “ that’s a works gospel )

For yet a little while, And he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.( like lord wife ) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:24-30, 36-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s a warning also esau is used in another place for the same message the same warning that modern Christian’s really really don’t want to accept

The same warning with a different example

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Like lots wife Christian’s are told of an end and we are well warned like her we can either heed Gods word like lot or disregard the e lords true warnings like she did the outcome was different for each

modern Christianity has tried to remove the truth from the gospel so those kinds of warnings don’t make sense if we think “ we’re already saved I don’t need to do anything Jesus said to do , I can never lose salvation “

Without the lords warnings we are blind that’s an example of what happens when we disregard the lords true words and warnings to believers
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
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Luke 14:25-35 reads, 25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

31Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

34Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

35It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

We are told that Israel was given to us for an example. I would go as far to say all the individuals in the old testament are given to us for an example.

Lot's wife is a literal and physical example of salt being cast out because it is no good, is not fit. Why because she was not found worthy because as the verses prior point out she was not willing to forsake it all. Which family, father, mother, children, brother, and sister are specifically mentioned.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The children in the wilderness longed for the Garlic and leeks of Egypt.
Lot desired the easier way, just as he always had, and the angel granted it.
Remember Esau.
Hebrews 12:16
“Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.”

my point here is that every accusation being brought against Lot's wife can be equally made against Lot, and in much of the case, really is nothing more than supposition about Mrs. Lot's motives with nothing in the account supporting it, but with Lot, ample evidence of him continuously resisting the warnings and direct commands of the angels.

so if we damn Mrs. Lot on this basis it is evident we should equally damn Lot or else we judge unevenly.

however 2 Peter 2 calls Lot explicitly an example of righteousness - so we should not contradict him.

If we acquiesce that despite Lot's resistence and unwillingness he is saved, we ought to judge equally Mrs. Lot if we dare to assign judgment at all.

The evidence we do have is that she was supernaturally saved from the destruction of the wicked city and that she was furthermore supernaturally prevented from returning.

on that basis alone what does she represent?
And specifically what does she represent to tribulation Jews?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Lot was saved by mercy, not on account of his works.