Remember Lot's Wife

Lot wasn't there as a witness except to God's grace. Lot is juxtaposed with Abraham on how to live and how not to live.

If that's your take, good for you. And awesome for the ministry you do. I don't think that what you have offered is the most likely scenario given what scripture says.

right ... which hits strange to me as well.

and what about his sons? did his sons live with him in his home yet remained behind? ... did his sons live in the city and Lot did not speak with them ... as, apparently, he did not speak to his daughters???
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Remember where lot came from brother and why he left home ? It was based on Abraham’s promise remember ?

“So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so in my head God promised Abraham Abraham said To lot “ I’ve heard from the lord and I’m leaving he is going to bless the world through me “

and lot said “ can I come along uncle Abram ? “

then remember this part notice how the nephew doesn’t offer Abraham the best but crosses it himself and also what immediately follows

“And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents. And the land was not able to bear them, that they might dwell together: for their substance was great, so that they could not dwell together. And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land. And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren. Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left. And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other. And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭13:5-11, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Also lot had a lot of possession and property and land there I know you don’t like long posts brother and I’m sorry but if your able to keep following the thought you’ll see why

so one more look at the situation and Abram the Hebrews actions and what triggers it , and watch what again immediately follows

( the battle of the nine foreign kings )

“And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way. And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre ( really important location )

the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah,

which is on the left hand of Damascus. And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

And he blessed him, and said,

Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

and blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭14:11-16, 18

If you follow the rest of the story you see how this led to soddom and Gomorrah’s corruption but lot owned a lot of the lands and had a lot of properties and flocks and people servants and workers ect

he was sort of tied to it and rotted tangibly speaking and it all became corrupt around him later is my point the corruption surrounded lot , it wasn’t that he liked seeing it or being thought well of he wasn’t he was rejected think of it a morally good guy in an evil city ? They aren’t going to praise him and think well
Of him theyll clown and persecute him like evil rulers do Christian’s

Sincerely apologize for the length I know you don’t love that part

Yes, it most certainly IS the most likely scenario.
These verses make the point with tremendous impact.

Lot was most certainly engaged in WARNING and PROTECTING strangers, that much is clear.
Even to the extent of GREAT personal sacrifice if needs be!

Whereas the residents were filled with lust and murder, and these "strangers" would have received a much more harrowing "welcome" from them.

The dichotomy is infallibly clear, yet you refuse to accept it.

Gen 19:1
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
Gen 19:2
And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

What if God sees things like

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ado what if he’s saying “ your one “ she came from you and then you male are born from her”

“and the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. ( just as now a man is taken out of a woman )

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the idea is they are one but they each have their own roles and each depends on the other gender for the species to survive and thrive as a whole we need no hers and fathers good men and women and young men and women In order for mankind to really be fruitful

what if it just happens to be the husbands role to do one thing and the wife’s role to do the other for the family that is actually one unit

i do not think either Lot or his wife is condemned in the text, and with that post I mean to make a point i have repeated, that every accusation being made against Mrs. Lot here is equally valid against Lot if not more valid against him.

so if we don't condemn him, we should not condemn her either. if we condemn her, we should equally condemn him and start writing apostle Peter angry emails. lol

Irenaeus suggests we do not condemn either, but thank God for His mercy on them, and concentrate our study on looking for types in the narrative.

i think this is good advice

I don't deny that Lot was righteous. I believe he succumbed to the society he lived in. He didn't even realize the men sent were angels. I believe over time his spiritual discernment had waned to the point he needed to be rescued or overtaken in judgment.

be that as it may Pilgrimshope ... what we see in Gen 19 is that Lot had sons, daughters, sons in law (no daughters in law are mentioned so we don't know if Lot's sons were married) ... and the only ones who escaped judgment were 4 in number ... Lot, Lot's wife, Lot's 2 daughters (also interesting that it's 1/2 of those who escaped the judgment of the flood).

Interesting that Zoar means "insignificant" ( ... the name of Zoar before it was changed was Bela which means "destruction")

Genesis 19:20-23 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

and then Lot ended up in the mountains anyway

Genesis 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

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Abraham as intercessor comes to mind ...
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yes

Genesis 19:29
And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot had dwelt.

just like all descendants of Adam ...
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Sure. But not exactly. Do you need to be rescued from where you live? If it became as evil as Sodom, would you leave?

well i do wonder at what point did he realize who he was dealing with. at some point I think it's unrealistic for him not to have known. this is a man ((and most likely his wife)) who probably shared the first communion recorded in scripture with Melchizadek. ((i would presume Abraham gathered Lot & Co. to himself when he rescued them, and Genesis 14 is the first mention of 'bread and wine'))

My presumption in reading all the patriarchs and prophets is that they are wise, intelligent people unless specifically told otherwise.

where do i go when the whole world is wicked?

i need a Saviour

Sure. But all terribly flawed. I could take just about anyone of them and show great sin. I like your optimistic view of mankind. I just don't share it.

If he did not immediately know they were angels it gives credence to the idea he was actively trying to save strangers who entered the town from the hands of the men of Sodom. because he was sitting by the gate watching and immediately warning them not to spend the night in public but stay with him instead.

If that's his regular activity i am going to guess his wife is totally in on it too.

hands to the plow

It's a fair question. And God is of course where to turn. But had he turned sooner he would have called upon a high tower and not a deliverer.
Sin doesn't suddenly appear; it comes in stages, each worsening.
You can look at the USA as an example. We didn't wake up a month ago and here we are. This has occurred over decades.