Many Mansions Sermon: Meant for those who are alive in Christ

And now, just as in marriage, we are "one flesh" with Him: His flesh and His bones. This is the mystery Paul explained.

It's a shame this thread didn't garner more attention. To me it engenders the essence of the new covenant most succinctly and the purpose in Jesus' advent in particular. There is a life with God hidden in Christ that is supernatural and every bit as real as the one we have in our flesh. Yet too few Christians know of its existence or reality.
I understand one's reticence to such teaching. The abuses on the subject are legion and the typical response to extremes on one end lead to extreme reactions on the other. But Jesus came to bring not only life but to bring it to its fullest. It might be worth asking ourselves...is this all there is?

I could go along with that assessment if not for the rest of the chapter and into the next few chapters. Keep reading the chapter. The bride doesn't leave. The Father and bridegroom come to them.
But I do like the symbolism of marriage for a host of reasons.

Regarding the bolded: There is something about failure to discern the body that gets people into trouble. First, they lose sight of the Body having only one head: Christ Jesus. Men take it upon themselves to form their own vision, apart from the Lord, as to the direction of the flock. They also fail to discern one another and how each one fits into the body by the Spirit. Certainly this is impossible among those who deny the Spirit's work today but even among those who accept the Spirit's work much of their activity is about who gets to rule over whom instead of who gets to serve the other.

The consequences of not discerning the Body is something Paul wrote about:

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Each one must examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

When such things become systemic then only a form of godliness remains within a powerless group of people. Or, among those who claim to be spiritual but are not, emotional flagrancy supplants the true work of the Spirit.

There are certainly other snares. This was just a simple overview.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Joh 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

God's Word version
Joh 14:31 However, I want the world to know that I love the Father and that I am doing exactly what the Father has commanded me to do. Get up! We have to leave."

Show me where the bride doesn't leave, please.

God's Word version
Joh 14:31 However, I want the world to know that I love the Father and that I am doing exactly what the Father has commanded me to do. Get up! We have to leave."

Show me where the bride doesn't leave, please.

Verse 23

I originally wrote this as a reply in another thread, but I did not want it to derail the discussion. So, I gave it its own thread.

John 14:1-5 is often read a funerals. I believe this practice misses the meaning of the scripture.

John 14:2-6
In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

The word for "mansions" is monē. It's the same word used in this verse when Jesus explains that the Father and the Son will live with believers:

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

So, the question is: if you are a believer, did you add onto your physical house to make room for the Father and the Son?

No, of course not. We know that Jesus is using figurative language. However, the language bears much weight!

Jesus is factually reporting that the Father and the Son will, by their own volition, abide with those who love them. This hints at the depth of security in the covenant: it is assured not by man's strength (as was the Law) but by the will of the Father and Son. (that's another thread entirely)

Now let's look at "place".

Place is the word topos. The same word is used here, when the Jews appeal to the Pharisees to help with the threat that Jesus was to their nation and religion:

John 11:48
“If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”

If we read "place" as a physical dwelling, we could conclude that the Jews were afraid to be evicted from their homes because of Jesus.

We know that's not what they meant.

They were afraid to lose their positions of influence and their places of power.

Let's look at one final area.

Jesus said "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself". Is there anywhere in scripture where this is so? If He's not talking about receiving you in heaven when you die but, rather, about receiving you to Himself on this side of life, we should be able to find that in the scriptures, right?

Of course we can.

Jesus, the man, was only one man. The laws of physics prevented another man from being in the same place as was Jesus. But, when He died (and this is what He was alluding to) He did not rise up as Jesus, another man. He rose up as the Christ. When we plant a seed we do not harvest only a seed. No. An entire plant full of seeds grows from the one that is planted.

So what is the corollary between Jesus dying, being resurrected, and being able to receive all unto Himself?

The many-membered Christ! Christ is the spiritual man in which all men, who are redeemed, are fit and knitted together.

Paul explains this mystery...

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

Paul also used the same word for "receive" (paralambanō ) in Colossians 2:6-10

As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Notice how man "in Hims" are used in that small section. This is the reality of being received unto Christ: our place is indeed "in Him".

We are the structure, engineered by the Holy Spirit, through which the corporate Christ is seen in the earth.

Furthermore, in Christ, we are not another; we are not a foreign body. We are actually His flesh and blood. That is why He can share His glory with us:

And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Let's look at the first set of verses again.

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

Jesus is explaining how He will administrate next part of the New Covenant.

This is a paraphrase using the points from above:

My Father's family is vast! I tell you these things because I tell you my Father's business. By my passing and resurrection you may be included in the house of My Father; Our Father. I will arise as the Christ and include you in myself. When I walked the earth My Father secured a place for Me. He was always with Me. When I return and receive you to Myself, you will walk the earth with the same grace I was given. I will always be with you. Do not be troubled in your heart.

"I will never leave you or forsake you." -Christ Jesus

Are you saying that Jesus and Christ are two different Persons? If so, they are really two different names. "Jesus" is his personal name; "Christ" is his regal name showing his power as the King and Ruler of his people and the universe. The Gospel of John sometimes has at least two layers of meaning, especially when he quotes Jesus' predictions. Prophecies of Jesus and other prophets in the Bible many times have multiple fulfillments. Here, he says that all believers will join him spiritually in his body with him as the head, as Paul describes. Then, he will return in the future to complete his work of renewing the universe and preparing our final place there.

It's a shame this thread didn't garner more attention. To me it engenders the essence of the new covenant most succinctly and the purpose in Jesus' advent in particular. There is a life with God hidden in Christ that is supernatural and every bit as real as the one we have in our flesh. Yet too few Christians know of its existence or reality.
I understand one's reticence to such teaching. The abuses on the subject are legion and the typical response to extremes on one end lead to extreme reactions on the other. But Jesus came to bring not only life but to bring it to its fullest. It might be worth asking ourselves...is this all there is?

And it's an excellent point. And I'd be interested in hearing more. But I was mainly lamenting over the fact that a thread like this garners so little interest but flat earth threads find a large audience. It just speaks to the immaturity of the church and how little the body is growing up into the head.

Christian Chat had members who dug deep and understood the life hidden in Christ but unfortunately the nasty people drove them away.
This place is a shadow of what it used to be .... I spend more time reading old threads then what has been posted in the last year.

If it was once, it can be again. I didn't mean to discourage you.

But now, as a spirit, there is room for all who believe in Him to be in as His body, His flesh and bones in the earth.

1. Christ is NOT in a spirit body at this time. His glorified resurrected body is flesh and bones in Heaven, and He is literally seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. That is precisely how He ascended (with the marks of His crucifixion) and that is also how He presented Himself to John in Revelation 1 (with even more power and glory). That is also how He will come again.

2. When Christ comes for His Bride (the Church), He will descend "to the air" (not to the earth). He will bring with Him the souls and spirits of the saints who have passed on, and give them their resurrected, immortal, glorified bodies. Then they will return with Him to Heaven.

3. At the same time the saints who are alive at His coming will be gathered, perfected, transformed, glorified, and also given glorious (light emanating) bodies. They too will ascend to Heaven, but not precede the resurrected saints. All this is spelled out in Scripture.

4. At the present time the Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles) is spiritually and metaphorically (a) the Body, (b) the Bride, and (c) the Building of Christ. But at the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be taken to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

5. After that all the saints and angels in Heaven will descend as "clouds" surrounding Christ at His Second Coming. The entire scene will be like lightning shining from East to West.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 14:27,30)

6. It is only after this that Christ will send His holy angels to the far corners of the earth to gather the believing remnant of the Jews ("the elect") to Israel (Mt 24:31). But according to other Scriptures He will in fact gather all Jewry worldwide to Israel in order for them to confront their true Messiah. But only one-third of them shall be saved. So "all Israel" (Rom 11:26) actually means every one of the twelve tribes of Israel, not every Jew. Only those who mourn, repent, believe, and receive Him as Lord and Savior shall be saved.

No. He is the same person. But, only after His resurrection is He revealed as the corporate, spiritual Christ into whom all believers are placed by the Holy Spirit. The substance of the seed is identical to the tree that grows from its burial and resurrection. The tree, however, reveals the majesty of that substance.

How could Jesus have been referring to Israel when Israel would be demanding His crucifixion the next day? Even redeemed and restored Israel (in the future) will be on earth, not in the mansions of the New Jerusalem. How do Christians manage to confuse themselves so thoroughly?

John 14:1-3 is THE FIRST INTIMATION OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH. "I will come again and receive you unto myself" speaks of the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride at the Rapture. Thus "the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven with a shout". He does not send out His angels at that time but comes personally to take His saints to Heaven. And that is where those mansions are -- in the New Jerusalem. This is a huge cubic city -- 1500 miles cubed. So imagine how many multiple mansions it has.

The message of John chapters 14-17 is profound and life changing when understood and attained. Jesus is getting ready to die and assume His seat at the right hand of the Father. Knowing His departure will devastate His disciples, He relates to them how much better it will be as a result of what He is about to do. He literally tells them He will send another exactly like Him and offers to them the same relationship He Himself enjoys with the Father. This is the very essence of eternal life He speaks of in 17:3. It is in fact a higher estate than Adam enjoyed because we have become partakers of the divine nature. It is this reality we should apply our efforts towards.